Project D3D11Client Development

orb

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Question: I notice that pressing F key for framerate isn't working. Am I doing it wrong, or do we just have to use the performance meter module?

For some reason it's removed from the beta. I've posted a bug for that:
http://www.orbiter-forum.com/project.php?issueid=912

Starting from Orbiter 110822 "F" and "I" keys are no longer used. You can right click on the upper menu and configure what will be displayed on the screen. You can activate FPS display in "Auxiliary info bars".
 

Mandella

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Do you have AMD/ATI video card? And can you please explain in more details what exactly is going wrong, maybe some screenshots would definetly help.

Thank you for the feeback!

No, but I do have an Nvidia 8800GT, which I just realized is not DX11 compliant.

:facepalm:

Which sort of takes me out of the running to be an effective beta tester here. I do plan to upgrade to a better card sometime soon (maybe in the next month) and perhaps there will still be some testing to do by then...

Great project, by the way. So nice to be getting FPS over one hundred again. And if you can get real terrain modeling and collision in -- woot!
 

orb

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No, but I do have an Nvidia 8800GT, which I just realized is not DX11 compliant.

:facepalm:

Which sort of takes me out of the running to be an effective beta tester here.
People with DX10 cards should also do beta testing of this client, unless you want another, D3D10Client to be created.

I'd do the beta testing on DX10 card myself, but I'd need to reinstall my Windows Vista first. :p
 

asmi

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No, but I do have an Nvidia 8800GT, which I just realized is not DX11 compliant.

:facepalm:

Which sort of takes me out of the running to be an effective beta tester here. I do plan to upgrade to a better card sometime soon (maybe in the next month) and perhaps there will still be some testing to do by then...

Great project, by the way. So nice to be getting FPS over one hundred again. And if you can get real terrain modeling and collision in -- woot!
This has nothing to do with your card being not DX11-compliant, as we do support DX10-compliant hardware - just certain things are not implemented for DX10 yet. But we are working on it!

If fact, we're getting reports that some guys even running this on DX10-compliant Intel integrated cards are getting 70+ FPS! :)

---------- Post added at 16:33 ---------- Previous post was at 16:17 ----------

People with DX10 cards should also do beta testing of this client, unless you want another, D3D10Client to be created.

I'd do the beta testing on DX10 card myself, but I'd need to reinstall my Windows Vista first. :p
Install Windows 7 instead of Vista - it's way better :)
 
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orb

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Install Windows 7 instead of Vista - it's way better :)
But I'd need to buy that Windows 7 first, which would be for its full price and not OEM, and the Vista was bought along with computer parts for it, around 5 years ago, like XP MCE with motherboard. Besides, I don't need another Windows on it.

Anyway I can try it on my netbook. Only single core, slow CPU and much worse graphics card than on my desktop, but DX11 compliant, and there's Windows 7. So I can run Orbiter there with 1024x600 resolution and the D3D11client. :p
 

asmi

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But I'd need to buy that Windows 7 first, which would be for its full price and not OEM, and the Vista was bought along with computer parts for it, around 5 years ago, like XP MCE with motherboard. Besides, I don't need another Windows on it.
You could probably use upgrade option to save a bit :)

Anyway I can try it on my netbook. Only single core, slow CPU and much worse graphics card than on my desktop, but DX11 compliant, and there's Windows 7. So I can run Orbiter there with 1024x600 resolution and the D3D11client. :p
Give it a try and see what happens :)

BTW right now I'm working on downporting post-processing effects to DX10, so I'm gonna need someone with DX10 hardware to test it. And probably I need to make it disableable, or guys running client on Intel integrated GFX-class hardware will be enjoying slideshow, albeit extremely pretty one! :lol:
 

Mandella

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Well all right then! Back to testing...

Screenshots aren't going to show much, as the effect occurs very quickly, and I'm not set up to record a movie on this rig right now.

Let me just describe it in more detail. Delta Glider at Brighten Beach sitting on the pad, just spawned in from that scenario. Hit f1 to switch view to inside and then hit f8 twice to switch to full 3D cockpit view, look down at the left MFD (should be showing VOR info). Click the select button to switch to, say, Orbit view (this works fine). Now click the TGT button or the REF button. The dialog box that normally pops up midscreen that lists all options that could be selected appears for no more than a fraction of a second, then disappears.

Running Windows 7SP1, AMD 64 3800+ with the aforementioned 8800GT video card.

But it is now dinner time, followed by family time, so I won't be able to play with this any more till tomorrow... :tiphat:
 

asmi

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OK, I've managed to downport post-processing effects implementation so now it works on CS 4.0 and so on DirectX 10-level hardware. It's disabled by default, so if you want to try it out, go to client configuration dialog and enable it there. But please keep in mind, that this is big FPS eater, for example on my laptop FPS drops from 180 to 80. It's still more than enough for my system, but you have been warned :)
It's in source control, so those of you guys who's got middle- to high-end video cards from previous generations - please try it out and let me know if it works - since I don't have DX10 hardware I can't test it here.

P.S. Whoever implemented this config dialog using pure WinAPI is a true Jedi :ninja: I'm into software development for over 10 years, and I have never seen complex dialog like that implemented using pure WinAPI, without even dialog resource!

---------- Post added at 19:43 ---------- Previous post was at 19:32 ----------

Well all right then! Back to testing...

Screenshots aren't going to show much, as the effect occurs very quickly, and I'm not set up to record a movie on this rig right now.

Let me just describe it in more detail. Delta Glider at Brighten Beach sitting on the pad, just spawned in from that scenario. Hit f1 to switch view to inside and then hit f8 twice to switch to full 3D cockpit view, look down at the left MFD (should be showing VOR info). Click the select button to switch to, say, Orbit view (this works fine). Now click the TGT button or the REF button. The dialog box that normally pops up midscreen that lists all options that could be selected appears for no more than a fraction of a second, then disappears.

Running Windows 7SP1, AMD 64 3800+ with the aforementioned 8800GT video card.

But it is now dinner time, followed by family time, so I won't be able to play with this any more till tomorrow... :tiphat:
Yes, issue is confirmed here. So far I have to clue where to look for it, but will see if something can be done. As a workaround for now please use any other view to pick these things, and then go back to VC.
UPDATE: workaround doesn't seem to be working either, working on it now...
That's weird - I swear it was working this morning just fine!

UPDATE 2:
Ok, I've fixed that bug, allthough still didn't quite get why it broke just now... Glider - please take a look at the fix - maybe you'll figure it out :)
 
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Glider

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I've fixed MFD redraw bug, bug with 2D panels of XR2, removed black quad on LC39 and added support of background textures with resolution lower than L8. dll compiled from the latest sources can be found on source control. https://bitbucket.org/asmi/ovp/overview
 
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dumbo2007

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You guys are doing a fantastic job trying to make the client run on the widest range of hardware possible and adding some really cutting edge features. The last few months have probably seen some of the most exciting and important strides towards preparing Orbiter for the next decade of graphics technology and all the wonderful experiences it promises.

This includes not just what you've mentioned, but water reflections (and actual water instead of just a texture like it's now) as well. But this will be a bit later.

Its great that you are ready to think out of the box to implement features that fill in the gaps :thumbup:

Let me push you guys some more then :)

I see that you already render meshes that are not controlled directly by the core. A separate graphics client gives you the freedom to do that and in fact add and move things around any which way you want. Well, then why not expose this capability through a function provided by the graphics client's API. That would allow meshes to be imported and moved by a Orbiter plugin independent of control by the Orbiter core. The advantage to that would be that plugins can add external physics engines that complement Orbiter's own capabilities and widens its scope. Custom maps are already supported, custom meshes seem to be a logical extension of the idea.

And whats more, since you are thinking of adding water on the high seas, what about ships on the water that float realistically. Such ships meshes would require accurate simulation of buoyancy etc which can be easily added by plugins. To control the meshes the idea I have followed so far is to use attachment points. But if the graphics client were to provide a way to directly position a mesh on a planet's surface without going though the core(which is pointless if the orbiter core is not controlling the object anyway). then it opens a lot of possibilities. I would think it would just be a matter of multiplying the right matrices in the proper order to position meshes on the surface of a planet or inside a vessel. It would be a one time extension which you can then forget about, but it would be a valuable addition to an add-on developer's options.

Its not limited to just ships and vehicles, someone could use one of the open source flight sim libraries to have a super-accurate boeing flight model. Specialized libraries can be integrated with meshes directly under their control but running in the same process(or even out of process, in a thread ?) as Orbiter. The Orbiter API is always available to sync with the main Orbiter simulation as needed. All in the same graphics viewport.

I am not requesting this feature be considered immediately of course, as you guys are busy with preparing the client. Maybe not today or tomorrow but it could be considered ultimately and perhaps you can keep it in mind. Separating the client would probably be one of the best decisions the good doctor took and it would really bring more into Orbiter than he had bargained for :)

Adding extra physics capabilities like movement of vehicles, water simulation etc allows for more complex missions right from detailed ground operations, in space and on other planetary bodies. It will truly elevate Orbiter from a space flight simulation to one that simulates all aspects of it

No point wasting those CPU cycles :p
 
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Mandella

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Well the good news is that that latest version does indeed fix the issue with the popup dialog box.

Bad news? Well, enabling post processing not only lowers my fps from around 200 to about 30 (which I would actually consider still playable, seeing as how I get into the single digits sometimes with the base client), but I also get an absolutely black screen except for the information readouts and HUD and PanelView. Interestingly, ships are still flyable using instruments, but no view from either inside or outside.

Running clean beta install with latest 185 drivers, same rig as noted above, of course. I do have all effects options checked, including local light sources (I'll jump back in and see if unchecking that makes a difference). Do I need to post a log, and if so, which one?

Edit: Unchecking local light sources makes no difference.

Also, running OrbiterSound, so not *completely* a clean install.
 
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asmi

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Well the good news is that that latest version does indeed fix the issue with the popup dialog box.

Bad news? Well, enabling post processing not only lowers my fps from around 200 to about 30 (which I would actually consider still playable, seeing as how I get into the single digits sometimes with the base client), but I also get an absolutely black screen except for the information readouts and HUD and PanelView. Interestingly, ships are still flyable using instruments, but no view from either inside or outside.

Running clean beta install with latest 185 drivers, same rig as noted above, of course. I do have all effects options checked, including local light sources (I'll jump back in and see if unchecking that makes a difference). Do I need to post a log, and if so, which one?

Edit: Unchecking local light sources makes no difference.

Also, running OrbiterSound, so not *completely* a clean install.
Ok, looks like I'm gonna need to work more closely with you to identify and fix issue. Will you be available tonight around 7-8 pm EST so we can collaborate in figuring this one out?

Oh, and another effects have no impact on PP effects, so it doesn't really matter wether you have them turned off or on. And so is OrbiterSound - as I have it enabled all the time and haven't noticed any issues with that so far.
 
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Mandella

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Ok, looks like I'm gonna need to work more closely with you to identify and fix issue. Will you be available tonight around 7-8 pm EST so we can collaborate in figuring this one out?

Unfortunately, that is right in the middle of my workday. My best times free are between 1:00 and 5:00 PM Eastern Time (8:00 to 12:00 UTC), daily.
 

asmi

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Unfortunately, that is right in the middle of my workday. My best times free are between 1:00 and 5:00 PM Eastern Time (8:00 to 12:00 UTC), daily.

Ok then - in this case we'll have to take a slow way - at least until weekend. I'm going to prepare a build with some extra checks tonight and then we'll see how it goes. The thing that I've just found out is that Compute Shaders support (even CS 4.0) is optional for DX10 hardware, so I'm gonna add a check if your hardware supports that, and if it does - than it's a bug and I'll keep looking, otherwise I'm sorry but you've gotta have to live without PP effects, since alternative implementation using regular pipeline can completely destroy performance.

---------- Post added at 15:51 ---------- Previous post was at 15:43 ----------

<skipped>
Wel that is exactly a reason why I'm so eager to get a feedback from all of you guys, who are using the client or are planning to do so. I'm sure everyone of you has got a billion ideas of what you'd like to be added to the client, and so are we. But since we've got limited resources to implement all of this, we need to prioritize things. And that is where feedback comes in handy - since we can plan things according to what most of you guys want to see implemented.
So please keep it coming!
 
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Bad news? Well, enabling post processing not only lowers my fps from around 200 to about 30 (which I would actually consider still playable, seeing as how I get into the single digits sometimes with the base client), but I also get an absolutely black screen except for the information readouts and HUD and PanelView. Interestingly, ships are still flyable using instruments, but no view from either inside or outside.

I have that same issue (black 'outside' view) too, on my D3D10.1 Intel HD Win 7 HP64 laptop. Plus, FPS goes from c. 80 to 8. Vanilla Beta 111105, RC 34.56

Additional issues:

Visible texture seams (Earth):

picture.php


picture.php


And a weird dark halo effect around the DG when using the docking light (local light source) - changing client parameters seems to have no effect - but it's only visible against other ships/stations:

picture.php


Tried the replacement Luna-OB1 with a similar effect:

picture.php


Hope this helps & thanks for your work on this!
 
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asmi

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I have that same issue (black 'outside' view) too, on my D3D10.1 Intel HD Win 7 HP64 laptop. Plus, FPS goes from c. 80 to 8. Vanilla Beta 111105, RC 34.56
I've uploaded a version which checks for CS hardware support. Please download latest and try enabling PP effects. If you'll see error message saying that Compute Shaders are not supported - than that is a cause for the issues, if you don't see any error messages, and screen is still black - please let me know, so I'll start looking into it...

Additional issues:

Visible texture seams (Earth):

picture.php


picture.php
Noted that too - it's for Glider :)

And a weird dark halo effect around the DG when using the docking light (local light source) - changing client parameters seems to have no effect - but it's only visible against other ships/stations:

picture.php


Tried the replacement Luna-OB1 with a similar effect:

picture.php
Looking into it right now.
UPDATE: fixed, please download latest version from source control.
P.S. Once I'll get a second, I will make this lighting per-pixel, not per-vertex as it's now.

Hope this helps & thanks for your work on this!
Thank you for the feedback and for bug reports!
 
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Namahage

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My client crashes when attempting to access Video tab.
I have Mobil Intel 4 express chipset.
DDI level 10 (Does that mean DX10 compatible?)

I am using latest Orbiter Beta 111105 + your .zip from today.
 

Mandella

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I saw no error messages, and still have a black screen. When is it supposed to pop up? At the Client Configuration Screen or in game?

If it helps, I routinely play fairly recent games under high detail with HDR and bloom and such enabled, with no problems but a hit on framerate.
 
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OK, a very quick test of RC34.60-

Local light 'halo' fixed - thanks

PP effects - still no 3D display; 90% frame rate cut; 2D panel displays incorrectly (see below)

New issue with 2D panel rendering incorrectly (whether PP effects enabled or not):-

picture.php
 

asmi

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My client crashes when attempting to access Video tab.
I have Mobil Intel 4 express chipset.
DDI level 10 (Does that mean DX10 compatible?)

I am using latest Orbiter Beta 111105 + your .zip from today.
No it doesn't - DDI has nothing to do with DX version. Do you receive any error message, or it just silently disappears?

I saw no error messages, and still have a black screen. When is it supposed to pop up? At the Client Configuration Screen or in game?
It should complain when you load scenario with PP effects enabled. If it doesn't - it's actually a good news for you, but it also means that I've got work to do :)

If it helps, I routinely play fairly recent games under high detail with HDR and bloom and such enabled, with no problems but a hit on framerate.
Well, I'm not a professional game developer, and no one is paying me to optimize it like crazy, so I'm doing what I can given the limited amount of spare time I've got...

OK, a very quick test of RC34.60-

Local light 'halo' fixed - thanks

PP effects - still no 3D display; 90% frame rate cut; 2D panel displays incorrectly (see below)

New issue with 2D panel rendering incorrectly (whether PP effects enabled or not):-

picture.php
2D display bugs - that's are likely consequencies from yesterday's Glider fixes, so we'll have to ask him to take a look.

Ok, guys, I've got a good news for all of you who's got DX10-level video cards. Today I've digged out of the storage room my old desktop with Core2Quad CPU and nVidia GFX 275 GTX video card (which is DX10-compliant), so I'm going to fire it up tonight and see what is wrong there.
 
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