Gaming Microsoft Flight Megathread

Moach

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I really don't have too much of a problem with the shop system. As long as the the amount of money spent to flesh out the game, is about what I would spend if there was a "Full version". Also being able to buy an addon, have it install itself and such, all from inside of the game itself is attractive.

Also, where is the source on the no SDK thing? I was doing some searching, and all I saw where posts on other forums saying there was no SDK. Assuming that isn't true, or it changes, I would hope that if a addon is meant to be freeware that it can be on the Flight store without charge. Surely there will be enough payware to keep the store viable.




if what you just said actually does happen - then i'll swallow my angry words and become very interested again.....


but all indicates the "store" is limited to M$ content - and i see no reason why they'd keep prices within the constraints of summing up to a full game....


specially because if there's no competition - they can just have their way with you.... and that's how EVIL people think, so why would they allow third-party addons in their store when can be evil and have it all for themselves, without any pressure for making things of good value?


they're EVIL - and are aiming to screw ya! - maybe if they notice their evil masterplan has been busted, they'll have to open it up for user content

but the chances of that happening would be better if the existing payware industry went about taking legal action to have a mandated SDK distribution...

they're robbing you! - that's what's happening - no SDK + DLC model means MONOPOLY - no good will come out of that!




i'l stop throwing gasoline in the fire once i see an official statement that user-made addons - including freeware - will be available in the "store"... 'till then, i believe there should be trouble headed their way


people will lose jobs over this - and there's nothing they can do... M$ has set them up a trap, let them stir up a paying comminity - than fence it in all for themselves


EVIL, i say - EEEEVIIIL!!!! *read in angry pirate voice*
 

RisingFury

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Microsoft is a company. As such, they'll do anything to make profit. If that means cutting the realism and player base the FS series created in favor of "just another game", they'll do that.

It really isn't surprising.
 

Urwumpe

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Microsoft is a company. As such, they'll do anything to make profit. If that means cutting the realism and player base the FS series created in favor of "just another game", they'll do that.

I'll rather wait and see. I have never been a big MSFS fan, but I can sure not see anything bad there. I would even consider it. I can try a full simulator with limited scenery and aircraft for free, remove it if it doesn't work, without a loss. I don't think Microsoft will not have a SDK for Flight, see above for why it would be stupid from Microsoft to do so (It means less money to be earned). Spending a few Euros for well-rated add-ons for Flight might not even be bad, compared to having to pay for a full game, which I maybe wouldn't even like.
 

Moach

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funny how the larger a company gets, the more prone they become to doing vastly incompetent stupidity such as this.....


i suspect that it must be almost impossible for corporate goons to think while wearing a suit with a tie hanging around their necks (throttling their brains, no doubt)

the more suits a corporation has, the dumber they become - it's so common it's almost a general rule (a few rare exceptions exist, but are few and far between - and only in some aspects of those are truly not evil)
 

Hielor

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it's a bait-and-switch!


they SAY it's meant to please both the "casual audience" and experienced FS fans.... but i highly doubt that

the "no addons" move was a blunder of unprecedented proportions - they basically just told every FSX enthusiast to go buy X-Plane 10 instead :facepalm:




how on earth can anyone be THAT thick-headed and end up being made someones boss is well beyond me...
Moach, you need to take a step back and cool it. You've exploded into ridiculous claims and insults based on, allowing me to quote from my previous post--a single sentence on a single third party website.


Since you are evidently *not* in the beta, I don't really think you're qualified to make the sweeping assumptions that you're making. Why don't you settle down and wait for some actual data from the team, rather than just going on hearsay and vague second-hand statements?

Another thing to keep in mind is that the game is still in beta. No game is ever perfect in beta, so anything that isn't yet perfect isn't grounds to scream "THE SKY IS FALLING AND MICROSOFT IS EVIL."

seems so.....


but - i do think there might be something less than completely legal going on....

think of it this way - M$ allowed an intusty to develop around payware FS addons

they knew about this, and how much it meant, both financially as well as for the community...

now, this payware industry could be considered a highly specialized marked - complete with fair competition between different publishers as any rightful business would have it

M$ had full awareness of this - and for years, continued to provide the base for this market to develop, and even though with every release some items became obsolete, there was room for publishers to continue their business freely


what they're doing now is to forcefully inject themselves into this payware addons market - but in a way that forces out any competition in quite a hostile manner

just as their history serves us in pointing out - they're instating a monopoly situation - and THAT's illegal


publishers like Abacus, PMDG and alike could conceivably take this to court - claiming a flight simulator series release without an SDK, coupled with the new DLC model creates unfair competition and strips them of their ability to make profit to a dramatic extent...

this could be counter-argued by the claim that Flight is not intended as a sequel to FSX -- but then again, this is something quite debatable - specially considering they wrote on many occasions that Flight WAS meant to appeal to legacy FS fans


yep - this whole "freemium" shennenigans could very well be against the law in this sense, specially if those payware companies would act on it....
they do have grounds to claim M$ is forcing them outta business, and that they're doing it intentionally and could very well have been premeditating the whole thing since the moment ACES got canned so it'd tip over their way

we as consummers, are also entitled to the claim that this unfair condition limits out ability to choose, and prices will rise uncontrollably - so we are harmed by this situation as well


so, while DLC is not really wrong in any legal way, the way they're jumping into this at this time, after all these years of knowingly brewing a third-party industry sounds pretty serious to me :facts:


an easy-out for M$, would be to simply release the SDK and allow existing publishers and users to create content in a way that puts everyone in a level playing field

note - this is ONLY possible because there is ALREADY an established marked for FS payware content - hence the problem... if there wasn't, then there'd be absolutely nothing wrong with it, except the millions of angry fans


if i were the one making money out of FS addons - i'd be lawyering up over this :nono:
Yes, let's "lawyer up" over a statement that may not even be true.

Even if it turns out to be true, I say--go ahead and lawyer up. Let me know how far that gets you, since you clearly don't know anything about the legal aspects of the software industry.

If you want a conspiracy theory, go read my last post talking about why a greedy Microsoft would want third party addons to be possible...

So, basically, for free, we're getting what could be called Flight Unlimited IV. Except you can, for an associated cost, purchase more scenery and aircraft from M$ if you want a 'richer' experience.

Thanks, but no thanks.
For FSX, you got a demo for free. If you wanted a 'richer' experience, you could go purchase the full version and get...more scenery and aircraft.

In the grand scheme of things, how is this any different, other than that you can now pick and choose what aircraft and scenery you want, instead of being locked into all-or-nothing?

---------- Post added at 10:31 ---------- Previous post was at 10:26 ----------

but all indicates the "store" is limited to M$ content - and i see no reason why they'd keep prices within the constraints of summing up to a full game....
A single sentence on a single third party website indicates this. I would hardly say that constitutes "all."

specially because if there's no competition - they can just have their way with you.... and that's how EVIL people think, so why would they allow third-party addons in their store when can be evil and have it all for themselves, without any pressure for making things of good value?
As I explained before--because they can make money off of other people's addons in the store without any pressure at all for making things of any value.

but the chances of that happening would be better if the existing payware industry went about taking legal action to have a mandated SDK distribution...
Nothing in any law states that every game or simulator ever made needs to have a public SDK available.

they're robbing you! - that's what's happening - no SDK + DLC model means MONOPOLY - no good will come out of that!
It also means less money for them and I think they're going to realize that.

i'l stop throwing gasoline in the fire once i see an official statement that user-made addons - including freeware - will be available in the "store"... 'till then, i believe there should be trouble headed their way
I've got a better plan--how about you stop throwing gasoline in the fire UNTIL you have any reliable source at all to back up the claims?

people will lose jobs over this - and there's nothing they can do... M$ has set them up a trap, let them stir up a paying comminity - than fence it in all for themselves
How is "Flight doesn't allow third-party addons" any different from "FSX was the last version of MSFS and they're not making any more" to the third-party developers? In both scenarios they don't make any more money from developing stuff for new versions. Yet, I haven't seen any addon companies suing MSFT for killing the franchise originally...
 

Urwumpe

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funny how the larger a company gets, the more prone they become to doing vastly incompetent stupidity such as this.....

Are we now still talking about Microsoft, who are adopting a very successful and actually pretty customer-fair (not friendly, it chooses its friends carefully) system, or your internet provider?
 

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You know, SimCity 4 still has an active community even though it was released in 2003, so I guess FSX will continue to live on.
 

Moach

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you know, when Spore was about to unveil its true underhelming nature - i was just that guy...

telling ppl to cool off, wait for real confirmation, "it's probably not THAT bad"- you know it.... that was me


...and for what? - in the end, those alarmists were right on their case to the very last word, i'm sorry if i've become cynical, but i really don't feel like i can trust big game developers anymore...



it's not that it's all about money... if only - they'd get more of that by pleasing the crowd, no doubt....

it's simply about unfit decision makers doing ill-advised business by the seat of their pants - very little more to it :facepalm:


a regrettable fact - and my god, i wish it weren't so....



and no - i never meant to say any company is required to release an SDK by law.... that makes no sense at all, now - isnt' it? :rolleyes:....

what i was suggesting was a way to look at the situation which implies a very, very hostile situation -- it is indeed based almost exclusively on distrust and negative thinking, i know - but then, what if that's the case?


then what? M$ will pull the plug on a market they created, take a major lump of it for themselves and go on as a monopoly from then on? - and that's not even a bit wrong somehow?


anyways, i'm not one to worry - in fact, i have absolutely nothing to lose over it (other than some hope in makind and what could have been a damn good simulator)... but there are people out there who make a living off something that if were at least left dead, would be fine

but looking at it from the paranoid eyes of someone born and raised in Brazil (where dishonesty is our main cultural export) - they're almost certainly doing this for all the wrong reasons


i still agree with those saying a boycott is in order....


if there were any bit of news that would ease our lost minds - it'd be out by now :sad:
 

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You know, SimCity 4 still has an active community even though it was released in 2003, so I guess FSX will continue to live on.

Yeah, I just got back into simcity4 myself a few months ago and I am surprised how active the community is, there's still constant development of new addons even if the game itself is showing it's age with these unfixed bugs.. I'm fine sticking to FSX for a long time now, I doubt my computer can run flight anyways (unless they did some magic optimization). I hope they do come through and leave things the way they were and allow people to make their own addons though.

It would be a shame if they take over all addon making, I realy like the new graphics but im not sure if the experience will be the same judging by that video on the last page. It makes the sim look so light and fluffy and im not sure if it will be the same or better than FSX. It seems to lack the seriousness it used to.
 

RisingFury

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What matters is only this homepage - or official interviews.

Ha! Popular opinion counts a lot with video games and popular opinion can make or break even the greatest games.

It happened to Unreal Tournament 3, because of the many bugs in the newly developed UnrealEngine 3 and the game.
 

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After showing this to my flight sim buddies and stuff, they, like me, can't see how this going to go over. It'll prolly be ok on consoles in the living room and stuff, but for a real simulator that's gonna appeal to aviation enthusiasts X-Plane will carry the flag. Microsoft gone and done screwed this one up alright.

And I just can't get excited over this. A curiosity, sure, which youtube videos will fulfill. But I can't see dropping money for all sorts of add-ons.

And like I said before, there's too much of that cloud stuff. Like it or not.. *I* dislike it and nobody is going to change my mind on it!
 

Hielor

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And like I said before, there's too much of that cloud stuff. Like it or not.. *I* dislike it and nobody is going to change my mind on it!
It's not an MMO. You can play by yourself if you want to.
 

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It's the delivery method and add-ons. I have a strict requirement that whatever I purchase I must have a physical medium(cd hd dvd cartridge) and some way of operating it without having to go online. I also must be able to un-install and re-install without activations and stuff.

That's me and that is how I conduct my software affairs. If they distro it from the cloud, that's fine, as long as I can back it up and not have to have an internet connection to run it or that silly authorization stuff.. pfffagghh!!

I've gotten burned too many times in the past where I d'l something and then it stops working later or the company that has to activate it for you is no longer around, or has discontinued the service or something like that.
 

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Off Topic, but Worms 4 Mayhem uses StarForce copy protection, which installs a driver! Then Win7 promptly disables it, as it is incompatible, so Worms 4 Mayhem doesn't work :(
 

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Off Topic, but Worms 4 Mayhem uses StarForce copy protection, which installs a driver! Then Win7 promptly disables it, as it is incompatible, so Worms 4 Mayhem doesn't work :(


That's ok. Worms World Party and Worms Armageddon still work. That's all that counts :p
 

Hielor

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It's the delivery method and add-ons. I have a strict requirement that whatever I purchase I must have a physical medium(cd hd dvd cartridge) and some way of operating it without having to go online. I also must be able to un-install and re-install without activations and stuff.

That's me and that is how I conduct my software affairs. If they distro it from the cloud, that's fine, as long as I can back it up and not have to have an internet connection to run it or that silly authorization stuff.. pfffagghh!!

I've gotten burned too many times in the past where I d'l something and then it stops working later or the company that has to activate it for you is no longer around, or has discontinued the service or something like that.
Well, for better or worse, the PC games industry is heading toward the must-be-connected kind of thing.

You can still use console games as you describe, though.
 

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Well, for better or worse, the PC games industry is heading toward the must-be-connected kind of thing. You can still use console games as you describe, though.

IMHO for worse, assuming it is a requirement. If cloud connectivity is optional then it's ok. Like I said, it's ok to distribute content through the wires - as long as I can save it to some sort of device - which currently would be a mechanical hdd.

Flight would be cool, with all sorts of planes being flown by other pilots from all over. There could be some really kick-butt ATC and virtual airlines. Too bad virtual pilots don't get paid. Perhaps they could get some sort of free add-ons or something.

Now.. I, from time to time, like to pretend I'm a systems admin on-board a generational interstellar spasecraft. And in the event of damage to the communications systems I need unlimited access to all the software on-board. This software must work regardless of contact or no contact with corporations back on Earth. And I carry that philosophy through to all the software on my systems.
 
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