bujin
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At the moment, I prefer SSM2007 as a Space Shuttle sim. It's a lot more user friendly than SSU. Hopefully as SSU develops, it'll become more useable. I'll check back on that sometime in the future.
Space Shuttle Simulator 2007
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At the moment, I prefer SSM2007 as a Space Shuttle sim. It's a lot more user friendly than SSU. Hopefully as SSU develops, it'll become more useable. I'll check back on that sometime in the future.
If it could interest anyone they have a down-loadable demo available now.
It only includes STS-1 and I guess its not much to do in orbit.
However, having tested BOTH Orbiter and SSM I must say SSM is cool.
The difference between them is actually quite big.
If you wanna play around in space Orbiter is best. Also, the earth looks better in Orbiter. Think it has twice the resolution compared to SSM.
But if you are keen for the shuttle only, SSM kicks ass.
No matter how many shuttle add-ons or ultra-shuttles there will be for Orbiter.
SSM is at version 1.33 for the moment and have had two new missions since release, and I think the pace of development is high compared to Orbiter.
Well, since Orbiter is FREE it has a great advantage, but it will not be improved with the same frequency when its developed in spare time of course.
Although, sometimes it seems like users here demands a LOT for something they haven't payed anything for.
So, a final conclusion:
Which one is best?? Eh....Depends..Both I think.
Is SSM worth the money?? Eh...Depends.
With the current dollar situation it costs about 30-35 Euro if you buy it from Europe. And that's definitely not to much.
If you live in the US on the other-hand, I don't know.
To me it was just a matter if spending a Saturday home from the local pub so it was not a hard effort.
And it have gave me more pleasure for sure.
And now a final,final conclusion:
Orbiter pros:
-Orbiter is free, SSM is not.
-Orbiters earth is super, SSM earth is good.
-Orbiters physics is super, SSMs is good
-Add ons can be made for Orbiter, not for SSM. ( At least not yet )
-In Orbiter you can play around, in SSM you have to follow the mission procedure to complete the mission.
SSM pros:
-You don't have to search around the web and download gazillions of bytes to get add-ons to get a super space shuttle and launch/landing sites.
- There's actually a goal in SSM. To complete the missions. In Orbiter you just play around.
- The overall 3D graphics, with the earth exception, is better then Orbiter.
- The virtual cockpit is super in SSM.
- SSM is more stable then Orbiter, and easier to get started with.
- SSM support and the atmosphere in their forum is in a higher universe compared to Orbiter. ( its a fact. )
So, before I get flamed of all forum members I must say that I am NOT endorsed by the developers of SSM.
I use them both, with much joy. But it seems to me that the attitude of some Orbiter users is that if you don't ONLY use Orbiter your sick.
It tends to be like the old Amiga/Atari, Nintendo/Sega wars.
Also, a lot of people are VERY fast to call everything else then Orbiter crap without even tried the other application.
I don't think we, Orbiter users have anything to fear of SSM. Why would we??
Do you think everyone would stop using Orbiter because they buy SSM??
Personally I think the differences between them is to big for one to exclude the other.
It only includes STS-1 and I guess its not much to do in orbit.
However, having tested BOTH Orbiter and SSM I must say SSM is cool.
The difference between them is actually quite big.
If you wanna play around in space Orbiter is best. Also, the earth looks better in Orbiter. Think it has twice the resolution compared to SSM.
But if you are keen for the shuttle only, SSM kicks ass.
No matter how many shuttle add-ons or ultra-shuttles there will be for Orbiter.
SSM is at version 1.33 for the moment and have had two new missions since release, and I think the pace of development is high compared to Orbiter.
Well, since Orbiter is FREE it has a great advantage, but it will not be improved with the same frequency when its developed in spare time of course.
Although, sometimes it seems like users here demands a LOT for something they haven't payed anything for.
So, a final conclusion:
Which one is best?? Eh....Depends..Both I think.
Is SSM worth the money?? Eh...Depends.
With the current dollar situation it costs about 30-35 Euro if you buy it from Europe. And that's definitely not to much.
If you live in the US on the other-hand, I don't know.
To me it was just a matter if spending a Saturday home from the local pub so it was not a hard effort.
And it have gave me more pleasure for sure.
And now a final,final conclusion:
Orbiter pros:
-Orbiter is free, SSM is not.
-Orbiters earth is super, SSM earth is good.
-Orbiters physics is super, SSMs is good
-Add ons can be made for Orbiter, not for SSM. ( At least not yet )
-In Orbiter you can play around, in SSM you have to follow the mission procedure to complete the mission.
SSM pros:
-You don't have to search around the web and download gazillions of bytes to get add-ons to get a super space shuttle and launch/landing sites.
- There's actually a goal in SSM. To complete the missions. In Orbiter you just play around.
- The overall 3D graphics, with the earth exception, is better then Orbiter.
- The virtual cockpit is super in SSM.
- SSM is more stable then Orbiter, and easier to get started with.
- SSM support and the atmosphere in their forum is in a higher universe compared to Orbiter. (
its a fact. )So, before I get flamed of all forum members I must say that I am NOT endorsed by the developers of SSM
.I use them both, with much joy. But it seems to me that the attitude of some Orbiter users is that if you don't ONLY use Orbiter your sick.
It tends to be like the old Amiga/Atari, Nintendo/Sega wars.
Also, a lot of people are VERY fast to call everything else then Orbiter crap without even tried the other application.
I don't think we, Orbiter users have anything to fear of SSM. Why would we??
Do you think everyone would stop using Orbiter because they buy SSM??
Personally I think the differences between them is to big for one to exclude the other.
Urwumpe
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Shall I test the demo? Can this be considered industrial espionage?
EDIT: 110.8 MB is not really smaller than Orbiter + SSU... Orbiter comes with a complete solar system...
EDIT: 110.8 MB is not really smaller than Orbiter + SSU... Orbiter comes with a complete solar system...
bujin
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I think it's a bit like giving up playing Half Life 2 because Crysis is better. Or vice versa.
There's no reason why you cannot enjoy both.
Urwumpe
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Ok, from testing the Demo, my personal expertise:
It is mostly about throwing the switches. The subsystems behave rarely as they should (for example, the center line latch moves instantly) and the order of the actions is not consistent with the real checklists (for example the Waterspray boilers get activated 20 minutes too early in the prelaunch. The aft flight deck and CRT4 are always activated during prelaunch and launch, which also not canon. The panels contain docking port and RMS, but STS-1 launched without both. Payload bay door activation is not correct, but mostly good. That the doors get opened before the aft panels are activated and the aft work station prepared is rather bad. The APU prestart/Start sequence is different to real procedures and would rather result in a jammed APU than hydraulic pressure. Also the talkbacks don't go gray after prestart - how can you report "three gray" for the APU being ready for start?
Other "bad astrodynamics":
The SM OPS 201 show a TDRS satellite, but TDRS was not available in STS-1... prelaunch cabin pressure is at about 5-6 PSI. Normal atmospheric pressure is 14.5 PSI until leak check. "Pc < 50" message is displayed even when the SRBs are separated. "LOAD" does not flash in the PASS MNVR OPS until the data is loaded. The SSME launch position is wrong out of the right reasons. The SSME nozzles are separated for ignition, but not as far as possible: Instead they are only a few degrees out of the neutral trim position for launch.
Also as tiny flaw: The many switching between 2D panels is annoying. I think we will not have this problem not in SSU (one small mouse move is enough), but the readability of the MFDs will be worse.
Of course, this criticism means, we all have to do this stuff better in SSU! Cheers!
It is mostly about throwing the switches. The subsystems behave rarely as they should (for example, the center line latch moves instantly) and the order of the actions is not consistent with the real checklists (for example the Waterspray boilers get activated 20 minutes too early in the prelaunch. The aft flight deck and CRT4 are always activated during prelaunch and launch, which also not canon. The panels contain docking port and RMS, but STS-1 launched without both. Payload bay door activation is not correct, but mostly good. That the doors get opened before the aft panels are activated and the aft work station prepared is rather bad. The APU prestart/Start sequence is different to real procedures and would rather result in a jammed APU than hydraulic pressure. Also the talkbacks don't go gray after prestart - how can you report "three gray" for the APU being ready for start?
Other "bad astrodynamics":
The SM OPS 201 show a TDRS satellite, but TDRS was not available in STS-1... prelaunch cabin pressure is at about 5-6 PSI. Normal atmospheric pressure is 14.5 PSI until leak check. "Pc < 50" message is displayed even when the SRBs are separated. "LOAD" does not flash in the PASS MNVR OPS until the data is loaded. The SSME launch position is wrong out of the right reasons. The SSME nozzles are separated for ignition, but not as far as possible: Instead they are only a few degrees out of the neutral trim position for launch.
Also as tiny flaw: The many switching between 2D panels is annoying. I think we will not have this problem not in SSU (one small mouse move is enough), but the readability of the MFDs will be worse.
Of course, this criticism means, we all have to do this stuff better in SSU! Cheers!
Pilot7893
Epik spaec mishun!
Going further into it, it has a lot of potential. I had no Internetz for a week, so I was anxious to see what the internetz were up to while I was gone
bujin
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Urwumpe
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But other than that, it's ok?
It is OK, the music themes are great, but the remaining ambient sounds could be better (For example, you don't hear the RCS at all, not even the forward RCS). Generally a good game, but I don't think it is worth the $50, I doubt I would play it again after two missions, mostly because of the reasons stated.
You get too often the "This is not right" feeling, which is really disappointing.
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You probably have no idea about how long video editing can take. Recording is one thing, but putting it all together in a nice way, can take a lot of time too.
BTW, nice video Pilot7893
(though I am a bit of an Orbiter fan.. but I can't really tell as I haven't tried SSM 2007 yet)regards,
mcduck
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i like orbiter better because i dont have to pay for it oh and the fact that i can fly more than just the shuttle.
Urwumpe
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I know. I tried it myself quite often. That's why I also know how bad work looks like. :lol:
It was not up until the third or forth attempt to record a Starstreak flight, when I figured out how to use VirtualDub to cut the raw video capture into something looking like a video.
Pilot7893
Epik spaec mishun!
Yeesh, them guys at the forums are in love with that game. Read this post:
http://www.space-shuttle-mission.com/forum/index.php?topic=1566.0
They changed "Orbiter" to "shuttle"! What are they, religous?!
http://www.space-shuttle-mission.com/forum/index.php?topic=1566.0
They changed "Orbiter" to "shuttle"!
What are they, religous?!bujin
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Yeesh, them guys at the forums are in love with that game. Read this post:
http://www.space-shuttle-mission.com/forum/index.php?topic=1566.0
They changed "Orbiter" to "shuttle"!
That post just brings up an error message for me.
You are right though. One thread (entitled Who wrote THAT review (on www.IGN.com!)) has some reviewer giving the game 98%! I had to respond to that one and say that I thought it was just a tad generous... (I'm rokushakubo on that forum, btw...)
Just a note, people who don't own SSM2007 can't post/read those forums. Guess the maker (who I vaguely know and think is a complete *bleep*) doesn't want people finding out what it's all about until they've already spent money on it
Urwumpe
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Just a note, people who don't own SSM2007 can't post/read those forums. Guess the maker (who I vaguely know and think is a complete *bleep*) doesn't want people finding out what it's all about until they've already spent money on it
You can download the 110.8 MB Demo from their homepage. I don't know if it helps for making a good decision, but well...
It looks like a nice concept and I hope it expands. When it does I just might give it a try but at the moment I'm still sold on Orbiter.
Reason one: (sorry AstroM) I like the flexibility of Orbiter. Never did like scripted sims much. The first few times they are OK but after that it's becomes boring. In Orbiter I can do what I want. I make up the mission and fly it. Never two missions the same. Not so with scripted missions.
Reason two: I love flying the shuttle but I also like missions to the Moon or loading up a deep space exploration vehicle and assembling a station in Jupiter orbit then resupplying it with a deep space cargo run etc.
Reason three: I don't by software where the forums are locked until you purchase. I've been burned by that trick before. Luckily it was only a $10 program but I paid my money and couldn't get to work. When I logged on to the forum (that I now had access to) I found that everyone was experiencing the same problems and the developer was nowhere to be found. He was just spamming the ads and collecting money from new suckers. I don't even think that program was intended to work. For all I know it was a Windows .dll renamed to .exe and sold for $10.
Support forums are a key source of information for me when I'm considering making a software purchase. If they are locked until you buy I tend to wonder what the developer is hiding.
Reason one: (sorry AstroM) I like the flexibility of Orbiter. Never did like scripted sims much. The first few times they are OK but after that it's becomes boring. In Orbiter I can do what I want. I make up the mission and fly it. Never two missions the same. Not so with scripted missions.
Reason two: I love flying the shuttle but I also like missions to the Moon or loading up a deep space exploration vehicle and assembling a station in Jupiter orbit then resupplying it with a deep space cargo run etc.
Reason three: I don't by software where the forums are locked until you purchase. I've been burned by that trick before. Luckily it was only a $10 program but I paid my money and couldn't get to work. When I logged on to the forum (that I now had access to) I found that everyone was experiencing the same problems and the developer was nowhere to be found. He was just spamming the ads and collecting money from new suckers. I don't even think that program was intended to work. For all I know it was a Windows .dll renamed to .exe and sold for $10.
Support forums are a key source of information for me when I'm considering making a software purchase. If they are locked until you buy I tend to wonder what the developer is hiding.
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- SSM support and the atmosphere in their forum is in a higher universe compared to Orbiter. (
I'd have to disagree with you here. This is an opinion, your opinion, not a fact.
Tex,
Guess I have to take back my complaint about the forum atmosphere. Its been a while since Ive been here cause the level of discussion has been quite low in the past, but it seems like its possible to actually exchange thoughts here.
MattNW,
I agree with you in reason 1 and 2, but number 3 is just plain crap. Don't think a vapour-ware product would have a demo at all. And since a lot of people, including me, bought SSM I can assure you there's nothing that backs your third comment.
Since I have SSM and have access to their forum I can tell you the earlier version of SSM was hacked, but back then there was so many bugs in it so it was almost useless anyway. So you really had to patch it, and hence make the cracked version useless. From that point the forum got locked since the SSM team didn't wanna give away any tips to the pirate users.
Simonpro,
Just because you are insulted by someone in your own language doesn't automatically makes you know him. At least not enough to call him a "beep". I don't think you are the most modest user in this forum yourself.
Pilot7893,
An Orbiter nerd like you,and me, accusing other people for being religious is almost disgusting. Hail to the probe!
Urwumpe,
Since your almost ridiculous nitpicking of drawbacks in SSM I guess you found it quite good?
You forgot that they don't simulate the visit to the toilet either.
What I'm trying to say is, how does the SSME gimbals work in Orbiter, how do we start the APU and all that stuff??
To sum it up. Don't be to cocky about Orbiter when it comes to shuttle simulation. Lets be proud of the things we already have, and that SSM NEVER will have. We can roam the solar system to our amusement without flipping switches. But now and again its awesome to go back to SSM and do a mission.
Guess I have to take back my complaint about the forum atmosphere. Its been a while since Ive been here cause the level of discussion has been quite low in the past, but it seems like its possible to actually exchange thoughts here.
MattNW,
I agree with you in reason 1 and 2, but number 3 is just plain crap. Don't think a vapour-ware product would have a demo at all. And since a lot of people, including me, bought SSM I can assure you there's nothing that backs your third comment.
Since I have SSM and have access to their forum I can tell you the earlier version of SSM was hacked, but back then there was so many bugs in it so it was almost useless anyway. So you really had to patch it, and hence make the cracked version useless. From that point the forum got locked since the SSM team didn't wanna give away any tips to the pirate users.
Simonpro,
Just because you are insulted by someone in your own language doesn't automatically makes you know him. At least not enough to call him a "beep". I don't think you are the most modest user in this forum yourself
.Pilot7893,
An Orbiter nerd like you,and me
, accusing other people for being religious is almost disgusting. Hail to the probe!Urwumpe,
Since your almost ridiculous nitpicking of drawbacks in SSM I guess you found it quite good?
You forgot that they don't simulate the visit to the toilet either.
What I'm trying to say is, how does the SSME gimbals work in Orbiter, how do we start the APU and all that stuff??
To sum it up. Don't be to cocky about Orbiter when it comes to shuttle simulation. Lets be proud of the things we already have, and that SSM NEVER will have. We can roam the solar system to our amusement without flipping switches. But now and again its awesome to go back to SSM and do a mission.
Simonpro,
Just because you are insulted by someone in your own language doesn't automatically makes you know him. At least not enough to call him a "beep". I don't think you are the most modest user in this forum yourself
Wrong, I'm afraid. He insulted me in English repeatedly, and in Swedish once. But that's not how I know him. He lives two doors away from a good friend of mine, and I've bumped into him a few times.
Oh, and I know I'm not modest. I don't mind though, I'm good and I know I am - but I also know my limits. I couldn't program SSM in a million years, but that isn't a compulsion to like the guy who did. I respect his programming accomplishments, though.
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