OS WARS MEGA THREAD (Now debating proprietary vs. open-source!)

[Rtyh-12]

After it's done, can I get one too? Please?

 

[Urwumpe]

After it's done, can I get one too? Please?

Do you operate a RAD750 hypercube cluster with distributed memory and local I/O?

 

[Rtyh-12]

Not yet, but I can get a Mac, how hard can it be to get one of those?

 

[Urwumpe]

Not yet, but I can get a Mac, how hard can it be to get one of those?

Well, when a Mac still had a good G3 chip bouncing around, it was up to 1/16th of a good RAD750 Hypercube.

(RAD750 = Radiation hardened spaceflight version of the PowerPC 750/G3 chip, currently used in spaceflight and planned to be in use until 2020)

 

[Wally]

Ten seconds of searching: http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/01/another-mac-vir/
The "common knowledge" that macs are immune to viruses by some magical bubble imposed by Jobs himself is a myth.

Well.. just want to point out that the virus alert you are linking to is from 2009 and we are in 2011.

I never said that Macs are immune to viruses. Just that it's very difficult having a destructive malware present on a Mac. Not impossible, but very likely.

I have a Macbook (no antivirus installed) used daily for more than two years by a person not familiar with IT stuff, mainly for office, Internet browsing, music and movies. In more than two years I had no crash, no reinstall and no malware present on the system. Battery keeps running for almost 4 hours, with wireless on. How many malware do you think I would have running any flavor or Windows in these two years, even with an antivirus?

 

[Urwumpe]

I never said that Macs are immune to viruses. Just that it's very difficult having a destructive malware present on a Mac. Not impossible, but very likely.

It is also very difficult to get HIV. Still people manage to get it by not protecting themselves and choosing to gamble. I would even bet a few cents (since it is a 50-50 bet), a proper forensic virus scan on your machine could maybe even detect bits of malware already present on your machine, if you never used a virus scanner.

Also before something as crude as Stuxnet appeared, people thought that cyber warfare against factories is just theoretical stuff from hacker conferences, that only work in the lab. Also, destructive behavior depends on the definition of damage. Just erasing your personal files or infecting your Mac to act as bot when you don't notice it would be enough and possible without root access. And a keylogger is bad on any machine.

 

[Wally]

Just name the antivirus tool and I will take your bet

 

[Urwumpe]

Just name the antivirus tool and I will take your bet

No antivirus tool - really manually going through the many dozen init files and folders that apply for your computer. I tell you, compared to a modern *x operating system (including Chimeras like Mac OS X), Windows has a very simple and clean way to determine how to decide which program to start when. I am no Linux expert at all, but I know already alone 8 different files to make a program launch without you noticing it. Two of them don't even need root access.

In terms of antivirus tools for Mac OS, I suspect that the attitude of "There is almost no malware for it" that also bugged Linux for years has the same effect as it had for Linux: It took a while to have at least a decent anti-virus for Linux. Mostly because too few people did not follow the true faith and did actively search for malware and malware patterns.

 

[Artlav]

Never the less, on a properly configured UNIX system, like Mac or Linux, the amount of damage a virus can do is limited.

A virus is pretty much an automated hacker, doing the same thing in a specific way.
This class of operating systems, however, was designed to resist directed and intelligent hacking attempts, so the viruses usually have no chance.

A virus can wipe all your personal data or make the computer a botnet drone, but won't be able to render it unbootable.

So, yes.
There are no terminal viruses for UNIX systems, but there could be debilitating ones.

 

[Urwumpe]

And still, there is no final security - if one user has the rights for one action, another can gain them.

 

[Hielor]

When I refer to burner programs, I mean things like working with iso images and copying cd's, in addition to ripping stuff. I've settled on CDBURNERXP and IMGBURN for those duties. They are freeware, work decent, and do everything I need. I like the customizability of dbPOWERAMP for ripping hard-to-rip or damaged cd's. Otherwise iTunes rips good enough for me.

Windows 7 can burn ISOs to disc natively without any utilities.

And overclocking, I've grown beyond that childish game. I moved on up to eco-clocking. Yes, there was a time I decorated and spiffed up a box to make it look fast and awesome. But now, in my old-age, why bother?!? I just buy last-year's top-of-the-line stuff and it invariably performs better than any overclock anyone could do. It's that simple, really. And, besides, a quiet system and stability is PARAMOUNT now for me anyways.

So if you've "grown beyond" it, why are you still complaining about it?

Yep! It was a bad application. That's what Sux0rz about pc's, there's no authority on making sure software behaves itself. Anyways, I removed the offending app and all is well. Blessed Bliss!! But *I* think the o/s should have popped up a flag saying the program I was running did not use standard programming practices or some other warning. It could have at least helped us troubleshoot the problem. Here is a link to the x-plane forum detailing my adventures. It's boring and full of log dumps.. http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?showtopic=50394&pid=557452&st=0&#entry557452
:beathead:

They added a feature like that, it's called UAC. It turns out that a ton of programs do things they're not supposed to, so the feature just seriously annoys users and they end up turning it off.

Orbiter, for example, doesn't follow the "programming conventions."

As far as the printer goes, I'm talking about the windows/hp drivers. When you right click on the print job in progress to get a status on the queue, it will say printing 33 of 11 .. I tried printing an 11 page document, and it does indeed print all 11 pages, single-sided. This is the little printer icon/queue that Windows puts in the tray next to the clock. Standard stuff on all WinXP systems. This was an 11 page text-only assignment writeup done in basic notepad.

You write 11-page documents in notepad? Impressive.

In any case, that number comes from the drivers, not the OS.

Supposedly a bare-bones winXP install can function in 250mb of disk space. This could become an onging experiment. And a fun one at that.

Good luck.

LONG RAMBLING POST ABOUT OH GOD I DON'T EVEN KNOW

The rest of your post was tl;dr. Sorry.

 

[Linguofreak]

Wait, are you talking about Windows or Linux? Because Windows does all that stuff automatically...

Linux does too. It's just that in either case drivers can make those things a bear. Apple, with their walled garden hardware, probably does have a bit of an advantage here.

Bad apps do bad things. Plus, how tiny is your drive that you have to go "mop up" leftover 1kb ini files?

I think the general idea is so that you still have your configuration files if you reinstall the program. Still, it can be annoying, especially if one is trying to reinstall a program because it's having issues, and the issues turn out to be in the configuration files.

There's a single volume control available. You only need to look into the other ones if you actually care, which you clearly don't, so stop looking and just use the main one.

I also seriously doubt that Macs have just one.

Also, Windows 7 gives you the ability to adjust volume by application--so, for example, if you never want your browser to make sounds, just mute it.

I'm not sure, but I almost think that, or something similar, is what he's complaining about. Generally I like being able to adjust volume in one place myself, but there are enough volume mismatches and misbalances you can run into that you really do need multiple controls, even if on a good system you run into such things only once in a blue moon.

Overclockers want that kind of control so they can do fine-tuning. Some motherboards from the past few years also offer "easy" overclocking options that just set everything for you. Overclocking isn't designed to be something that the average user does.

And some systems (such as laptops) need temperature and fan monitors even for the average user. Laptops have cramped enough cases that overheating can be a big concern, and fans are a power drain, which is a consideration when running on battery. My own laptop tends to do fine managing all that automatically, but it's good to be able to keep an eye on that sort of thing just in case. (Especially as the machine gets older and the internals dustier).

---------- Post added at 02:10 ---------- Previous post was at 02:04 ----------

The rest of your post was tl;dr. Sorry.

I must say, this comment was rather oa;cp till I googled it. (Obscure acronym; cannot parse)

---------- Post added at 02:13 ---------- Previous post was at 02:10 ----------

Udefrag3 knocked 6 seconds off my Orbiter load time, 9 seconds off boot time, and milliseconds off of when I load my Atari2600 game roms into the emulator. Each rom is like 2kb or sometimes 4 or 8kb for the more complex games. It got me 1 second load times for M$ Office Apps like Word and Excel. And less than 20-seconds for Photoshop with a full XR5 bay-full of plugins. So, yeh, I'M A BIG FAN OF MECHANICAL DISK OPTIMAZTION. For SSD's?? Well now, don't bother.

Does it really save you any more time than it costs you?

 

[Wishbone]

Disk optimization looks fun (but less suitable for space applications). Also, why does nobody bash Lisp-based OSes?

 

[Urwumpe]

Also, why does nobody bash Lisp-based OSes?

Because luckily, disk-space is still not available for storing the number of closing brackets needed for programming a proper modern OS in Lisp. :lol:

But there are many shells and window managers based on Lisp, which is already evil enough. Also you can program a lot of stuff in Clojure, if you feel not challenged by less abstract programming languages.

 

[Keatah]

I complain about overclocking because I once spent $3700 on a machine that was totally mediocre and half of that went on spiffing up the case. It ended up in the dumpster 2 years later, and the innards got parted out on Epay for like $100.00 .. I am still pissed about it! Blindly following the Modderz-boize scene. A huge waste of time and money for getting crap in return. And come to think of it, despite the bling and blang, none of the crap looked good to begin with. This oahverclokazz mascheen even had that stupid rambus rdram. Visions of smoking blasting performance swirled in my head at that time with grandiose delusions of actually becoming cool because my peecee looked like a hopped-up super-server or something! FRAK!!!

UAC totally sucks. I just turned it off.

If the numbers indeed come from the driver, then I supposed I could troubleshoot from there. It was never much a huge concern, but, on my way to obtaining the tightest PC, that will need to be fix-a-roo'd up sooner than later.

11 page notepad documents? Wha'ss wrong with that? There is nothing impressive about an 11 page document. My novel is already on page 287, with 12 more pages to merge in when I wrap up this chapter. I don't like the distractions of all the options and tools available in Word. In fact, just having the Format pulldown option at the top is a distraction as well as the View. And, besides, there is a good reason why I prefer to use the basic unformatted output of Notepad as opposed to a full-blown .DOC or even .RTF file .. The logic will become clear later on. You'll see! And it is simple, fast, and allows you to remain in touch with your work.

Anyways, I come from a time when Notepad would be considered a killer-app!

Rambling post?? Ohh I don't know, Disk Optimizing and Defragging a is valid and fascinating hobby for the OCD crowd. It keeps them occupied for hours on end.

 

[Artlav]

There is little difference between a 3.8Ghz-capable high end i7 and 2.4Ghz capable low-end i7.
The low-end model is simply a flawed high-end model, since the technology is imperfect.

The successful chips are sold as high-end and can hold higher frequencies, while defective chips are sold as low and middle-end, depending on how fast they could work.

So, overclocking is fundamentally flawed.

 

[Urwumpe]

So, overclocking is fundamentally flawed.

Not automatically, because a number of otherwise perfect or higher grade chips are sold as lower grade chips to meet the demand. Selling a $500 chip for $100 is better than not selling it at all.

The flaw is only in the numbers - the chance to get a good chip and be able to tell how good it actually is, is pretty low. Often you just get what you paid for - and this doesn't really like overclocking, but won't complain because overclockers burning CPUs, buy more.

 

[Keatah]

A company will certify chips to their highest rating as much as possible. A company will also take a perfect top-of-the-line chip and slap a lower price and lower spec on it to fill demand for a lesser-rated specification.

This is extremely common with Dell, and their hard disks. So many hard disks are, say, 500GB tested, capable, certified, for example - that they have an abundance of 500GB drives. They need to move these drives, but can't at the 500GB pricepoint.

Now, they just change a few bytes in the HPA, and the drive now becomes a 250GB or 340GB drive - of which there is more demand. And they can move them much faster.

There is little price difference (to Dell) between a 250GB drive and a 500GB drive. But marketing tactics artificially create a much larger gap that the consumer sees, often large enough to sway a purchase decision to the lower end product. Dell doesn't lose anything, they just make a little less on the deal, since the price at which Dell gets EITHER the 250GB *OR* 500GB models is less than what you pay when you get the 250GB model.

Hence the pressure to upgrade.

Intel is more insidious! Intel is doing the same thing with the SandyBridge cpu, they are making a "K" version that is unlocked **AND** **STAMPED** with a lower clock speed of around 2.6GHz or whatever.

Now, Intel damned well knows the "K" version is going to be marketed as an "unlocked" version for a higher price. And that the unlocked version will be purchased by those overclockers hoping to get a good deal. However Intel has a reputation to uphold, so they cover themselves by testing the "K" version to a higher spec than what they mark it with. Thereby creating an overclocking market.

So all unlocked "K" series chips will attain a much higher clock speed, easily. And the overclockers will elevate themselves into godhood with every "successful overclock" on unlocked processors. This will also lead the less-intelligent overclockers to try experiments on the non "K" versions. It will drive them absolutely crazy. They will be buying those special overclocking motherboards which carry a 2x and 3x markup. And fanbois will want to pay more, because they "just know" they are getting "more".

The allure of the K-series SandyBridge lineup is the glory and wonder of attaining extreme overclocking. The awe and respect of going high makes it real easy for fanbois to open up their wallet. But first, Intel had to create the right scenario for the trap.

They did something, but much less complete in execution with their Extreme Edition cpus of the last 5 years. Today, a standard $250 SandyBridge cpu will outperform last year's $999 Extreme Edition whatever.

This is the first time Intel closed the performance gap so quickly at such a dramatic difference in price. $750 difference! They could have done so several years ago, but one of the directives (like most other companies) was to milk the consumer as much as possible. Today, that is getting more difficult to do because, really, do we need 2.6GHz multi-core and beyond to cruise the internet and type up novels in Notepad?

Ha!! No one would ever spend $999 on a processor today unless you are a religious and blind fanboi. I've seen how all this works. The fanboi market *IS* an easily manipulated market segment, Intel knows that. And Nvidia & AMD/ATI know it even better!

Just look at the incredibly high granulation at this product line, for example -- http://www.evga.com/products/prodlist.asp
Compare product numbers 015-P3-1583-AR ((vs.)) 015-P3-1580-AR

Does the market genuinely need two versions of an already stupidly fast graphics card that varies by only 25MHz speed on an 820MHz rated design? The specific chip used in both these boards are the same. You just pay for the a different spec. But the subtle difference is hardly worth $20.00, but yet fanbois will argue their position for days and weeks on end as to which card is better or more stable. Only fanbois will vibrate back and forth between the two. And that debate/indecision, artificially created by the marketing department, will burn-in to you enough times that you automatically get one or the other. Doesn't matter which, as long as you hem'n'haw for a few weeks, letting the specifications stew in your brain, a sale is guaranteed. And the marketing department sucked you in.

The two closely spec'd products make your brain hemispheres vibrate back and forth at a low frequency, forming a permanent connection between you and "A" single product from that company. One side is logical, the other emotional. And as the battle rages in your head, the corpus callosum gets all fired up trying to balance things out.. You don't know which you will buy, but you *WILL* be buying. And the tension is not released until you make a decision. You then feel relief from the raging back & forth battle. Endorphins flow. The company got your money, you got relief. If not, the oscillations begin anew. Eventually they fluctuate less and less and fade with time. The time measured is 21-days. A key point in neurochemical rebalancing. Not unlike having too many orgasms too often. It really whips your mojo!

Some idiotic self-proclaimed marketing guru called this a, how did he put it, .. .. "an auto-chemical psychological lock-up, and our product provides the release" ... Good GOD!!! What is this world coming to?

And in 6 months time, none of this will matter. As the 680 series or whatever new designation they invent will be out. Ah-hel - they got new graphics cards coming out on a weekly basis, if not more often. For Chrissakes!! Isn't there any permanence in the world anymore?

Best enlighten yourself and grow beyond!

 

[Fabri91]

Overclocking can be interesting: for some reason many chips sold as mid-end hardware, like the i5 750 in my desktop, can be overclocked quite easily...mine works flawlessly at 3.8GHz at quite a low voltage, very much near the default value, and I'm testing right now if it can hold 4, and it seems so. Then again, I consider this to be a method to obtain the best value for your money: my system doesn't have real high-end hardware, apart from a decent cooler for maybe 40 or 50€, but there is a real difference using, for example, FSX, with stock or overclocked settings.

 

[jimblah]

A message to "gheghe": I'm flattered

It took me less than fifteen minutes to load a live cd, regain control of this system (my sixteen year old's), and undo the changes you made. I did more damage when I overclocked the video card. All of my partitions and data are backed up to a 1.5 TB external. The only thing I could possible lose is the work I'm doing to make Orbiter run better on wine. When I first started playing with linux ten years ago I used to go to linux chat rooms and dare "blackhats", "hackers", and "script kiddies" to hack my system just for fun. You weren't smart enough to wipe your ip from the system logs. Getting hacked isn't always a bad thing either. Once while I was using masm to learn assembly someone actually installed Borland's Turbo Assembly in Windows for me! One thing I've learned is that hacker's like their anonymity. If you treasure that as well, you're taking unnecessary risks.. I will report you to your isp, and the forum the next time it this happens. Especially if I have to sacrifice Orbiter frame rates to run increased security.:lol: