ORBITER MMORPG!!!!!!

DarkWanderer

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Wow, talk about me killing a conversaion, it went dead silent in here...lol.
The conversation was not killed, we just took our time to digest your wisdom ;)

For example, what happens if both player A and player B decide to move cargo container X, but A moves it to one location and B to another? It's essentially impossible to reconcile like this. You'd have to set up the system linearly so that only one player can interact with the universe at a time.
Well, that's why we're talking about actual multiplayer. Take any other multiplayer game: what happens if player A and player B try to pick up the same item? The item goes to whoever picks it first (from the server point of view, of course).
And of course any player-world interaction system should be muliplayer compatible. This may be taken as an axiom.
-----------------
I strongly agree with BHawthorne. If it's gonna be a common world, rather than session, one needs to make up something players will do. And for it not becaming dull in a week, the system needs to be thoroughly worked on.
The main problem here is, the people developing addons for Orbiter are mostly people with technical mindset - and we are more prone to think how things work, not how things should work. I guess if anyone starts a successful project on the discussed matters, his first step would be gathering a team... and inviting someone like BHawthorne :)
 
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Face

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I guess if anyone starts a successful project on the discussed matters, his first step would be gathering a team... and inviting someone like BHawthorne :)

Yeah... we should find someone who starts one... what about you?
 

DarkWanderer

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"About me" is the fact that I'm a loner, not performing well in a team. That doesn't prevent me from having an opinion, though.
 

Eagle

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Many good ideas here, but I only have one request:

No grinding please.
 

Hielor

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"About me" is the fact that I'm a loner, not performing well in a team. That doesn't prevent me from having an opinion, though.
As face has hinted at, this is one of the major problems: there are a whole lot of opinions and ideas, but no one who actually wants to do the work. That's not exactly conducive to the creation of an Orbiter MMOG.
 

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Well, as they say, nothing is impossible to the person that doesn't have to do it. :lol:
 

Arrowstar

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As face has hinted at, this is one of the major problems: there are a whole lot of opinions and ideas, but no one who actually wants to do the work. That's not exactly conducive to the creation of an Orbiter MMOG.

Or anything, for that matter. :lol:
 

BHawthorne

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Many good ideas here, but I only have one request:

No grinding please.

My thought would things would be working regardless of online or offline, so if you have flight downtime, whatever you had working in the background as buisy-work could be either be done with you on or off. There would be incentives for efficiency if you were on though. My reasoning behind such a suggestion is to cater towards casual play that doesn't require a bottomless pit of time (or grind) to do something. With the pressure to be online always doing something gone, things would be a lot more reasonable. Sure, these mini-games are meant to fill dead time in a design, but they also shouldn't require you to have to endure that time if you don't want to.

An example of a setup like that would be the queue system for skills in Eve Online. You queue up a lot of actions to be done and they do thier things. Some interaction is required but it's not going to consume every waking moment to keep things progressing. The idea is to make flight time meaningful, and not make it a grind in the process. The trick is designing the balance.

I have no issue with the idea of coordinating MMO add-on if you guys are ok with it. I was a project coordinator for several years over at WorldForge.org, so that's no real issue. The key should be getting a solid design down on paper and keep refining it until there is consensus, lock the feature set and shoot for our first milestone build.

As for those not wanting to do it. I'm not so sure that is the issue. It's more a matter of getting the resources together with the ability to communicate with everyone in real-time and via forum. I'd suggest for a project of this scale at the very least we'd need an irc channel, website and a sub-forum someplace to coordinate communications. It's not like something of this size just instantly has the people resources to pull it off. It means we'd need to recruit help over time and not expect instant results in the process. To do something like this is going to require at least a year of time to get right for v1.0. Heck, we could have an initial milestone out relatively fast, but that's just the first battle of many to see something like this in the form of where it needs to be as far as release quality and feature set.

The largest problem that needs to be addressed is just how all of this stuff can be done in a clean and well integrated manner within the Orbiter framework? This could be seen as using the Orbiter core but doing a TC for Orbiter that is so tightly integrated that it would need it's own install. I don't see how this could be merely done as somthing to slap on top of any old random Orbiter install. That would lead to countless quality control and consistancy issues. What I pose is that this "Orbiter Online" would use an Orbiter clean base isntall, then have the Total Conversion content installed over it in an all-inclusive manner as to bundle everything that has been through quality control asset review for this setup. That might go against many people's intent for this MMO concept, but if there is to be any consistancy to this, this would be an option to address it.
 
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BHawthorne

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There's an upcoming NASA sponsored MMOG... I've worked with some of the people who are making this in past jobs.

http://www.edge-online.com/features/where-no-game-has-gone-before

Looks interesting.

I'm sort of surprised that still going as a project. Last I knew that was under fire because of several of the proof of concept builds stole 3d media assets from Orbiter instead of doing their own. I'm sort of neutral about the NASA MMO because what is NASA's goal might not fit well with what Orbiter player's goals are. The largest beef I have with NASA is they working outside the established MMO community and are not seeking out help nor publicity within that community. It's going to get them the cold shoulder as far as adoption rate with how they are handling it. They seek success in the MMO community yet are currently ignoring it at the moment. Seems like a rather ignorant way of going about things.

The developers up for that contract were all small potatos when it comes to MMO development. I'm not saying that is a bad thing, but it seems to me that they should have seeked to recruit more mainstream MMO dev houses for the project instead of picking an outsider to the MMO community for the project. Something could be said when no big MMO dev house took the NASA proposal seriously. All of that is going to impede the mainstream success of the NASA MMO. Virtual Heroes only has success in the FPS gaming and government simulation arena. This is uncharted territory for them going into MMO. The only real thing they have going for them is they know how to deal with the US goverment and funding from them with previous projects.
 
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Xyon

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Imitation is the highest form of flattery...
 

Hielor

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BHawthorne

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Imitation is the highest form of flattery...

Intellectual property, copyright and trademark law aside I suppose you're right, but then again, why use the imitation when you could use the original? That way no implied deception is involved. It would have been nice if they would have asked to use the media assets instead of just downloading them and reskinning them to hide the fact that they were pilfered from Orbiter. :p
 
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Face

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I have no issue with the idea of coordinating MMO add-on if you guys are ok with it. I was a project coordinator for several years over at WorldForge.org, so that's no real issue.

There is no need to ask someone for permission. Just do it.
If you need a forum to start with, you can use the OMP-forums...
If you need a technical advisor, you can count on me.

The key should be getting a solid design down on paper and keep refining it until there is consensus, lock the feature set and shoot for our first milestone build.

Sounds like a plan.

regards,
Face
 

BHawthorne

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There is no need to ask someone for permission. Just do it.
If you need a forum to start with, you can use the OMP-forums...
If you need a technical advisor, you can count on me.



Sounds like a plan.

regards,
Face

Sounds good to me. Looks like 2 are signed up now. :thumbup:
 

DarkWanderer

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As face has hinted at, this is one of the major problems: there are a whole lot of opinions and ideas, but no one who actually wants to do the work. That's not exactly conducive to the creation of an Orbiter MMOG.
I didn't say I don't want to do. I said I won't manage to lead.

Sounds good to me. Looks like 2 are signed up now.
Well, if noone objects - I'm in too.

I'd say that in addition to forum, distributed development would require an SVN repository. However, free hostings expose the source code to public, so the question is: can it be made public?
Other variants (paid hosting and private server) require some additional action.

The largest problem that needs to be addressed is just how all of this stuff can be done in a clean and well integrated manner within the Orbiter framework? This could be seen as using the Orbiter core but doing a TC for Orbiter that is so tightly integrated that it would need it's own install. I don't see how this could be merely done as somthing to slap on top of any old random Orbiter install. That would lead to countless quality control and consistancy issues. What I pose is that this "Orbiter Online" would use an Orbiter clean base isntall, then have the Total Conversion content installed over it in an all-inclusive manner as to bundle everything that has been through quality control asset review for this setup. That might go against many people's intent for this MMO concept, but if there is to be any consistancy to this, this would be an option to address it.
There's just too large diversity of addons and tweaks to properly handle all the different configurations - even a DGIV has more than 10 possible setups. Consider also the problem of cheating - the server must prevent the client from using any addons that can change the environment, e.g. a scenario editor. In this sense a separate install is essential.
 
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Face

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I'd say that in addition to forum, distributed development would require an SVN repository. However, free hostings expose the source code to public, so the question is: can it be made public?
Other variants (paid hosting and private server) require some additional action.

When it comes to distributed source control, I'd strongly suggest Mercurial via TortoiseHg. This way commit access is no hurdle anymore.
OMP is developed in such a repository, too.
Free hosters with Mercurial support would be SourceForge, BitBucket and GoogleCode. BitBucket has the option for one free private repository.

Since I have quite some experience with DVCS, you can chalk me up as repository maintainer, too.

regards,
Face
 

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I've started a Milestone 0 thread in the OMP sub-forums to get the ball rolling.
 

4throck

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Interesting ideas but, not wanting to drop out of nowhere and spoil the fun, let me share some thoughts on this issues:

Perhaps a MMORPG is too ambitious... A game requires a team of dozens of people to develop and takes years, as is much more complex that simulating one specific spacecraft.

Also, why use Orbiter if it doens't have any online features at all? The realistic physics it does provide don't bring much in order of possible game play.

If you need a 3D engine why not use the GoogleEarth API ? It comes with 3D terrain and buildings for Earth, Moon and Mars, supports any model you want, and runs inside a webpage controled by javascript. It looks as less work for me.

Now, I do like the idea of online spaceflight with some degree of reality, and if sometime in the future there's some need for any graphics or web related work for this project, I'd like to help (time permiting).
 

garyw

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If a MMORPG is what's required why not just sign up to EVE Online?
 
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