Google Earth Plugin for Orbiter (beta)

[Scrooge McDuck]

Hello,

Can anyone test if this works?
It is a plugin for orbiter (extract in plugins folder, and activate in Modules tab), it will add a mini Google Earth dialog inside Orbiter, like this:

Currently, it will automaticly follow the vessels position.
It is just a test version, no stable version..

Use the following steps:

1. Run/launch Google Earth first, the usual way.
2. Launch Orbiter
3. Activate the module
4. Inside Orbiter, press Ctrl-F4 and launch the plugin. Press initialize.

It will even work when you have Orbiter running in Full-screen.
Known problems:
- when you close/restart Orbiter, you need to restart Google earth too.
- you'll probably need Visual Studio 2008/5 express, or those DLL's...

regards,
mcduck

 

[Quick_Nick]

I just tried it and it ran well... after I installed the 2008 redistributable. The plugin ran a little slow but I do have a sluggish computer/internet, yet Orbiter ran very smoothly.

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

Thanks for testing. Do you notice a frame rate increase (inside the Google Earth view) when you run Orbiter in windowed instead of full screen?


I forgot to mention that the altitude shown in the GoogleEarth view corrosponds to the vessel's altitude above the surface.

regards,
mcduck

 

[Quick_Nick]

That explains why I couldn't zoom. I tried using full screen this time and I think that the Google Earth view may have had reduced speed. It definitely didn't load the images as quickly, but that could be a connection issue. I had errors and issues in both Google Earth and Orbiter, but I'll have to see if that is only due to a not-clean install or if I didn't follow correct procedure well enough or if it is something entirely different.
Both of these flights were low-altitude btw.(DG-S takeoff scenario)

 

[Skookum]

Activated the module but I'm not seeing the plugin when I'm pressing Ctrl F4 in game. Suggestions?

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

Activated the module but I'm not seeing the plugin when I'm pressing Ctrl F4 in game. Suggestions?

Do you have the 2008 Redistributable Package installed? It contains runtime libraries needed for any Orbiter addon compiled with MS Visual Studio 2008.
You can download it here (1.7 Mb).

regards,
mcduck

 

[Skookum]

Thanks, it works now.

Three things:

Firstly. Great Idea. Incorporating Google Earth into Orbiter has been long overdue.

Secondly. It would be really nice to be able to zoom and pan at one's leisure. The dialogue window seems to restrict the view to a single setting.

Thirdly. For development purposes, I clicked the close button and Orbiter crashed. Not a complaint, simply an observation.

Great mod!

Cheers

 

[estar]

This is GREAT! The step would be tocheck out NASA's worldwind and see if you get at the servers to download images for dynamic terrain generation. The source is available that show how this can be done. Hopefully the Google Earth database can be used as well.

 

[Artlav]

Looks good.
Some observations:
The GE window stays blank after Orbiter shut down, is that expected?

Some zooming and panning are possible, with camera jumping to current position every now and then.

If you run it before starting GE, GE starts by itself.

If you click some icon in the map, the window opens in the view, but content stays in the GE window.

The fly-on performance remains the same, but every time map jumps, FPS drops to 10 (from ~95) for a split-second.

Pressing close button returns the view to GE window partially, then Orbiter crashes.

If you start Orbiter, use the plugin, close Orbiter, then start it again, the plugin won't do anything, and GE windows stays blank.

All tested in windowed mode.

The step would be to check out NASA's worldwind and see if you get at the servers to download images for dynamic terrain generation. The source is available that show how this can be done. Hopefully the Google Earth database can be used as well.

Been there, done that. Details in this thread:
http://www.orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?t=999
I don't think GE data will be much too good for the terrain, as it is quite chaotic in colors and levels. Looks good for a map, but the realism is low.
Anyway, their license directly prohibit any usage of their data outside their program (as i understood it - http://earth.google.com/intl/en-US/license.html ), and western people often take such things seriously.

 

[deltawing777]

humm what if?????

wow this google earth thing would be really cool in a mission control type scenerio networked with "beeping" communications of course .

 

[cjp]

@McDuck:
I started working on libProcTer again; it's going to be something like Orulex, but then multi-purpose on two sides: will run in all kinds of simulators (not just Orbiter), and will support plugins for landscape generation.

Do you think you could make a Google Earth plugin for libProcTer, once libProcTer is ready for it? I mean, it should be possible to get these images somehow (either through HTTP, or through some API), but I don't know exactly how.

At least you probably won't have to worry about re-projecting the images: in the next version I'll use the same Mercator projection as Google Earth (but for different reasons). For now I'm busy by improving the performance of libProcTer (doing detailed profiling of the main thread), and finding a way to re-project my current earth tiles, followed of course by an Orbiter plug-in.

 

[Hielor]

@McDuck:
I started working on libProcTer again; it's going to be something like Orulex, but then multi-purpose on two sides: will run in all kinds of simulators (not just Orbiter), and will support plugins for landscape generation.

Do you think you could make a Google Earth plugin for libProcTer, once libProcTer is ready for it? I mean, it should be possible to get these images somehow (either through HTTP, or through some API), but I don't know exactly how.

At least you probably won't have to worry about re-projecting the images: in the next version I'll use the same Mercator projection as Google Earth (but for different reasons). For now I'm busy by improving the performance of libProcTer (doing detailed profiling of the main thread), and finding a way to re-project my current earth tiles, followed of course by an Orbiter plug-in.

Be aware that what you are requesting specifically violates the Google Earth terms of use.

 

[cjp]

Be aware that what you are requesting specifically violates the Google Earth terms of use.

I don't see how these terms of use can be relevant to the developers. Is there anything you are not legally allowed to do when you don't agree to these terms of use?

Maybe you are not permitted to use SDKs developed and copyrighted by Google. But even without those SDKs, an application could be developed that uses Google's map data, e.g. through HTTP requests, like any web browser.

The trick is then that, when the base URL is not hardcoded in the program, the program can be used with any map database that uses Google's protocol. Saying that the developers of the application need to follow Google's terms of use would imply that they need to follow the terms of use of any (compatible) map provider. That would be insane, and in fact we also don't ask the makers of web browsers to agree to the terms of use of all website makers, so I think the developers are quite safe if they do it the right way.

Instead, it is the responsibility of the user to check whether the terms of use of Google are valid in his/her country, and if that is the case, face the risk of prosecution.

Now, once it becomes a rule of the game to not use any Google-copyrighted things for development, I don't know whether McDuck's experience is still relevant for my libProcTer idea, but that's something McDuck knows best.

That leaves the question of the legal status of McDuck's plugin. Did he have to agree to any terms of use to make this plugin possible, are these terms of use valid in the Netherlands, does his plugin violate these terms of use????

If everything else fails, we could still simply ask Google for permission.

BTW, I am not a lawyer. I only use what seems logical and common sense to me.

 

[DarkWanderer]

Just a thought: maybe it'll be better to try to adapt TileProxy?..

 

[Hielor]

I don't see how these terms of use can be relevant to the developers. Is there anything you are not legally allowed to do when you don't agree to these terms of use?

Maybe you are not permitted to use SDKs developed and copyrighted by Google. But even without those SDKs, an application could be developed that uses Google's map data, e.g. through HTTP requests, like any web browser.

The trick is then that, when the base URL is not hardcoded in the program, the program can be used with any map database that uses Google's protocol. Saying that the developers of the application need to follow Google's terms of use would imply that they need to follow the terms of use of any (compatible) map provider. That would be insane, and in fact we also don't ask the makers of web browsers to agree to the terms of use of all website makers, so I think the developers are quite safe if they do it the right way.

Instead, it is the responsibility of the user to check whether the terms of use of Google are valid in his/her country, and if that is the case, face the risk of prosecution.

Now, once it becomes a rule of the game to not use any Google-copyrighted things for development, I don't know whether McDuck's experience is still relevant for my libProcTer idea, but that's something McDuck knows best.

That leaves the question of the legal status of McDuck's plugin. Did he have to agree to any terms of use to make this plugin possible, are these terms of use valid in the Netherlands, does his plugin violate these terms of use????

If everything else fails, we could still simply ask Google for permission.

BTW, I am not a lawyer. I only use what seems logical and common sense to me.

The maps and images are copyrighted by Google and various other companies. By using them without permission you are violating the copyright, which is a bad thing.

 

[cjp]

Just a thought: maybe it'll be better to try to adapt TileProxy?..

That is interesting! I'll definitely remember this suggestion; for now my focus is on creating a solid software platforms; advanced landscape plugins will follow later.

Leaves the question of course whether TileProxy is legally OK, but for now they seem to get away with it. Final comment on TileProxy: it uses the GPL license, not LGPL. This is OK for libProcTer (using GPL by default), but it can not be used together with Orbiter. Maybe it will be possible to use it in a future GPL visualisation client for Orbiter.

---------- Post added at 11:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:45 PM ----------

The maps and images are copyrighted by Google and various other companies. By using them without permission you are violating the copyright, which is a bad thing.

But in my concept the developer is not using the maps (except maybe for testing) and AFAIK neither is McDucks plugin. The maps are not supplied with the plugin or software: instead, the software downloads the maps from Google when the user starts using the software.

So, the only one who is using and making copies of the maps is the end user of the software, and not the developer.

In fact, I doubt whether even the end user has to agree to the terms of use. When a user follows random links to Google maps locations, Google's servers already send map data without the user explicitly agreeing to any terms of use. Of course the maps are still copyrighted by Google (and/or other companies), but I don't think they can reasonably force people to follow stricter rules than very generic copyright rules. I think that end users automatically have a license for fair use of these images, but not for distributing them in any way (e.g. on their own website).

Though I have to say that my intuition largely fails when trying to understand how copyright can ever make sense on the internet. How can you simultaneously claim copyright on material and distribute it over the internet to anyone who asks for this material? I stick to my opinion that copyright ss, and we should get rid of it in favor of a different system for rewarding authors.

 

[DarkWanderer]

Leaves the question of course whether TileProxy is legally OK, but for now they seem to get away with it. Final comment on TileProxy: it uses the GPL license, not LGPL. This is OK for libProcTer (using GPL by default), but it can not be used together with Orbiter. Maybe it will be possible to use it in a future GPL visualisation client for Orbiter.

IIRC, TileProxy is a program, not module. That is, you can download a program (TileProxy) and modify it to use with Orbiter (write a plugin to communicate with TP).
Also, according to GPL chapter 3 ("Protecting Users' Legal Rights From Anti-Circumvention Law"), rightholders can not limit operation and modification of the work - so nothing restricts you to FSX/FS2004.
However, asking a permission wouldn't hurt

BTW, TileProxy itself uses Google Earth as one of the sources. I think, it worth to look through the GE's license.

 

[cjp]

IIRC, TileProxy is a program, not module. That is, you can download a program (TileProxy) and modify it to use with Orbiter (write a plugin to communicate with TP).
Also, according to GPL chapter 3 ("Protecting Users' Legal Rights From Anti-Circumvention Law"), rightholders can not limit operation and modification of the work - so nothing restricts you to FSX/FS2004.
However, asking a permission wouldn't hurt

I don't know about GPL 3, but AFAIK GPL 2 prohibits linking with code that isn't (and can not be) GPL-licensed. This includes Orbiter, because Orbiter is clearly not GPL, and the sourcecode isn't even available publicly. Now that I think of it, FSX isn't GPL either, so I guess the TileProxy people haven't paid close attention to the licensing details. Or maybe they made a special linking exception for FSX, in which case it might be helpful to ask them to make a linking exception for Orbiter too.

Edit: maybe I didn't understand your post completely. How does that TileProxy work exactly? Is it a standalone process that communicates somehow with a plugin in FSX?

 

[DarkWanderer]

How does that TileProxy work exactly? Is it a standalone process that communicates somehow with a plugin in FSX?

Exactly. I don't know the concrete mechanics (maybe FSX itself has a pipe-accessible API), but the client program runs separately. Thus, the only problem will be to examine the sources and find an adequate conversion.

 

[tblaxland]

http://sourceforge.net/projects/tileproxy/But in my concept the developer is not using the maps (except maybe for testing) and AFAIK neither is McDucks plugin. The maps are not supplied with the plugin or software: instead, the software downloads the maps from Google when the user starts using the software.

Sounds a lot like the arguments used by the Napster authors...