Project G42-200 StarLiner

[LuckyHendrix]

I have to disagree with this , for me flying in orbiter is more about flying to the numbers, keeping the perfect AoA and following precise flight path , all of which can hardly be achieved even with the steadiest of hands.

 

[zerofay32]

I have to disagree with this , for me flying in orbiter is more about flying to the numbers, keeping the perfect AoA and following precise flight path , all of which can hardly be achieved even with the steadiest of hands.

To each is own... :tiphat:

When I spend time in Orbiter, I actually fly my missions. I find rendezvous and docking precisely, is rather easy, and I like to focus on what you do when you are docked.

Thus, my interest in payload management for the G42.

(P.S. my degree is in visual arts, so I'm no rocket scientist. But once you understand basics like orbital mechanics, you don't need to rely on silly autopilots to do things precisely. :thumbup: )

 

[Cras]

To each is own... :tiphat:

When I spend time in Orbiter, I actually fly my missions. I find rendezvous and docking precisely, is rather easy, and I like to focus on what you do when you are docked.

Thus, my interest in payload management for the G42.

(P.S. my degree is in visual arts, so I'm no rocket scientist. But once you understand basics like orbital mechanics, you don't need to rely on silly autopilots to do things precisely. :thumbup: )

I guess it depends on your definition of "precise". Not arguing if it is easy or not, it is how by the numbers you wanna be. I am guessing what you call precise flying, I would call flying by the seat of your pants.

 

[zerofay32]

I guess it depends on your definition of "precise". Not arguing if it is easy or not, it is how by the numbers you wanna be. I am guessing what you call precise flying, I would call flying by the seat of your pants.

Not in the least. For example, I follow NASA timelines when I fly STS for historical missions. The major milestones of the flight (Launch, rendezvous and docking, deorbit, and landing) are all done 'seat of the pants' with default MFDs (and Universal Pointing and GPC MFD) and I'm +- 20 seconds from the timeline. And as for deorbit and landing, it doesn't get more precise then putting the orbiter on final approach, on energy and on time flying manually.

But this is all off topic and I opologze for the tangent. Moach can develop the G42 however he wishes of course and that includes support for autopilots. I will go on knowing that I seem to be in the minority on the autopilot issue.

 

[Izack]

(My opinion is, if you cant do a mission on with the default MFDs, default autopilots, and maybe one other MFD; you need more practice in the Delta Glider.) :lol:

What do you do, then? Get your reentry angle and crossrange by looking carefully at the colour of your plasma trail? :crystalball:

I take exception to this as well.

Edit: Oh, a whole page of discussion just happened. Nevermind me. :facepalm:

 

[Moach]

all valid points, indeed....


i, myself, being a regular flight-sim junkie packing X52 and rudder pedals wouldn't miss the chance of flying by hand even when there ARE autopilots to do it for me.... :lol:

but those are important, very much so....

still, perhaps not as much as being able to haul cargo.... i mean, what good is a ship that flies all by itself but carries nothing up there with it?


but thing is - the '42 will most likely never work with some of the "generic" autopilots out there.... mostly because it doesn't fly like most spacecraft usually do, i.e. it's not a rocket launch - but more of a hypersonic airliner climbout :hmm:


flying it with a clinical precision is also not necessary, it packs a good deal of slack when flown properly within its envelopes - not like the DG tho... so watch your flying


i guess any autopilots for this thing would have to be custom made... the engines take time to spool up and down, plus - very shortly, it won't be just flicking them on and off, as you'll have the APU and other things to manage before doing a burn


BTW - the OMS engines should be compatible with conventional controls, thus should be operable by general spaceflight autopilots like that in IMFD

the main engines aren't built for that... so it's no bug that they don't work - it's a more of a technical limitation of the spacecraft itself by design


still haven't decided on the next big step tho.... cargo sounds nice, bug the cockpit is still too far from what i'd consider "functional enough"

and there are the different mode EICAS panels and systems.... those were going pretty well last time i got anything done

 

[EndeavourCmdr]

I logged in to this forum again for the first time in a loooong time, simply to write this post. I only discovered this addon a day or two ago on Orbithangar, and last night I decided to download it and give it a "go".

let me first start with my first and ONLY "gripe", which is that for me, the included html documentation does not work, and so I had no reference on key commands or how to operate this bird, which resulted in my visiting the forum to read the posted checklist. This was even difficult because without some kind of printed manual, I didn't know how to find 60% of the things listed. However, after 45 minutes of Alt-tabbing between the VC and the Checklist, I was able to locate all that I needed, and start my first flight.

I spent several hours learning to fly this bad-mama. She can be a bit difficult to get used to. The fuel consumption is very high during the transition to stage 3 flight. My first few attempts, I never made it to even close to a circular orbit, and always ended up gliding at about mach 8 back to a landing somewhere.

Finally however, after re-reading the manual and practicing several times, I was able to bring this baby into a nice 300 x 300 orbit with 10k fuel and 16k oxy still in the main tanks, and a full tank of OMS.

The functionality on this thing is amazing. The VC is outstanding, and I love the retractable canards, the visor and the wing positions.

I would really like to see a LOT of development go into this craft. I can already say that if development was to continue, this thing has the potential to EXCEED the DGIV in terms of quality. If a majority of the VC switches and displays get implemented, and the systems simulation keeps getting better, I could see myself very much even being willing to PAY for this addon.

Please, please... keep up the terrific work. She's a lovely bird.

 

[Moach]

thanks, mate! :thumbup:

always good to hear she's pleasing the crowd



i've been itching to get something new done lately... gotta see if i can install my missing software since the last PC upgrade and get back on it - lots of new goodies since the last release (mostly minor stuff, but all combined can make quite a difference)


do note - the pilot workload is bound to increase over the next series of updates - we're mostly ready for coding in the more complex systems (like apu, hydraulics, fuel, elec, ecs and whatnot)

 

[Keatah]

..let me first start with my first and ONLY "gripe", which is that for me, the included html documentation does not work, and so I had no reference on key commands or how to operate this bird, which resulted in my visiting the forum to read the posted checklist. This was even difficult because without some kind of printed manual, I didn't know how to find 60% of the things listed. However, after 45 minutes of Alt-tabbing between the VC and the Checklist, I was able to locate all that I needed, and start my first flight..

Agreed! I totally personally dislike html documentation unless it's for certain things. This isn't one of them. AS the project crystallizes I wouldn't mind doing up a proper .pdf manual.

 

[EndeavourCmdr]

Moach,

Just wanted to tell you that this ship is now officially my favorite Orbiter addon vessel of all time.

I just got done taking her for another flight.
I used the turbofans to get her up to 12k and mach .85, at which point I closed the visor, retracted the canards, and kicked in the AB to take her up to mach 1.5

Then shut down the turbofans and kicked the scrams on until reaching the VERY beginning edge of phase 2, where I bumped the scrams into high.

This entire time, maintaining either a 10 degree climb, or 150 m/s of climb, whichever produced the lower rate. While accelerating past phase two, had to gradually lower the nose to maintain a climb rate between 3 and 5 degrees until reaching the top of phase 3, where I turned off the scrams and ignited the rockets.

Again, pitched back up to about 5 degrees of steady climb, and let the rockets put me into a 150 x -20 sub-orbit, where I cut the rockets out.

About 5 minutes before apogee, switched on the OMS engines, and let them put me into a circular 400x400km orbit, which I followed up with about 40 or so orbits to enjoy the cockpit and the view of earth.

Reentry was maintaining about a 45-55 degree pitch, adjusting to control rate of decent and rate of deceleration. CG shift was instrumental here, however I would like to offer my feedback that the increments seem to be a bit too far seperated. Maybe halfing the amount of shift per keypress would be a little easier.

Anyhow, leveled out at about 50k, and 3500 miles from the cape at a speed of about mach 11. Flew it in that way until about 1500kms from the cape, where I increased pitch again to maintain a steady -50 ms decent. At 300 kms out, I was still doing about 2km/sec, which let me fly a nice downwind and base leg.

I had plenty of energy and altitude to bring her in for an unpowered landing, but I felt that a 3 degree decent and landing would be more desireable for the passengers, so I decended at 10 degrees pitch until intercepting the 3 degree glideslope and VASI at about 10kms out from the Cape.

---------- Post added at 06:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:10 AM ----------

Powered flight without canards was at about 200 mps, and I only had to use about 12.5% thrust to maintain speed. Landing was flawless and she rolled to a gentle halt about 500 feet from the end of the runway. Powered everything down and called it a very successful flight.

FYI: To all that wonder about fuel performance? This whole flight was done with 17.66k Oxy, 13.22k Fuel and 7.36k ASF remaining in the tank at wheelstop.

Shes an amazing bird.

 

[streb2001]

I am getting a CTD in the last stages of Orbiter startup loading the G42 vessel module. This is on an oldish (2003) but otherwise standard PC running XP SP3, GeForce 7600GS, Athlon XP 2500+, vanilla Orbiter 2010P1 install for testing.

Orbiter log:

**** Orbiter.log
Build Aug 30 2010 [v.100830]
Timer precision: 2.79365e-007 sec
Found 1 joystick(s)
Devices enumerated: 3
Devices accepted: 3
==> RGB Emulation
==> Direct3D HAL
==> Direct3D T&L HAL
Module AtlantisConfig.dll .... [Build 100830, API 100830]
Module AtmConfig.dll ......... [Build 100830, API 100830]
Module DGConfigurator.dll .... [Build 100830, API 100830]

**** Creating simulation session
DirectDraw interface OK
Direct3D interface OK
Graphics: Viewport: Window 1914 x 1055 x 32
Graphics: Hardware T&L capability: Yes
Graphics: Z-buffer depth: 32 bit
Graphics: Stencil buffer depth: 8 bit
Graphics: Active lights supported: 8
Loading 15382 records from star database
Module Sun.dll ............... [Build 100830, API 100830]
VSOP87(E) Sun: Precision 1e-006, Terms 554/6634
Module Mercury.dll ........... [Build 100830, API 100830]
VSOP87(B) Mercury: Precision 1e-005, Terms 167/7123
Module Venus.dll ............. [Build 100830, API 100830]
Module VenusAtm2006.dll ...... [Build 100830, API 100830]
VSOP87(B) Venus: Precision 1e-005, Terms 79/1710
Module Earth.dll ............. [Build 100830, API 100830]
Module EarthAtmJ71G.dll ...... [Build 100830, API 100830]
VSOP87(B) Earth: Precision 1e-008, Terms 2564/2564
Module Moon.dll .............. [Build 100830, API 100830]
ELP82: Precision 1e-005, Terms 116/829
Module Mars.dll .............. [Build 100830, API 100830]
Module MarsAtm2006.dll ....... [Build 100830, API 100830]
VSOP87(B) Mars: Precision 1e-005, Terms 405/6400
Module Phobos.dll ............ [Build ******, API 060425]
Module Deimos.dll ............ [Build ******, API 060425]
Module Galsat.dll ............ [Build 100217, API 100215]
Module Jupiter.dll ........... [Build 100830, API 100830]
VSOP87(B) Jupiter: Precision 1e-006, Terms 1624/3625
Module Io.dll ................ [Build 100217, API 100215]
Module Europa.dll ............ [Build 100217, API 100215]
Module Ganymede.dll .......... [Build 100217, API 100215]
Module Callisto.dll .......... [Build 100217, API 100215]
Module Satsat.dll ............ [Build 100215, API 100212]
Module Saturn.dll ............ [Build 100830, API 100830]
VSOP87(B) Saturn: Precision 1e-006, Terms 2904/6365
Module Mimas.dll ............. [Build 100215, API 100212]
SATSAT Mimas: Terms 113
Module Enceladus.dll ......... [Build 100215, API 100212]
SATSAT Enceladus: Terms 33
Module Tethys.dll ............ [Build 100215, API 100212]
SATSAT Tethys: Terms 101
Module Dione.dll ............. [Build 100215, API 100212]
SATSAT Dione: Terms 59
Module Rhea.dll .............. [Build 100215, API 100212]
SATSAT Rhea: Terms 68
Module Titan.dll ............. [Build 100215, API 100212]
SATSAT Titan: Terms 100
Module Iapetus.dll ........... [Build 100215, API 100212]
SATSAT Iapetus: Terms 605
Module Uranus.dll ............ [Build 100830, API 100830]
VSOP87(B) Uranus: Precision 1e-006, Terms 1827/5269
Module Miranda.dll ........... [Build ******, API 060425]
Module Ariel.dll ............. [Build ******, API 060425]
Module Umbriel.dll ........... [Build ******, API 060425]
Module Titania.dll ........... [Build ******, API 060425]
Module Oberon.dll ............ [Build ******, API 060425]
Module Neptune.dll ........... [Build 100830, API 100830]
VSOP87(B) Neptune: Precision 1e-006, Terms 391/2024
Finished initialising world
Module ShuttleA.dll .......... [Build 100830, API 100830]
Module ShuttlePB.dll ......... [Build 100830, API 100830]
Module DeltaGlider.dll ....... [Build 100830, API 100830]
Module LuaInline.dll ......... [Build 100830, API 100830]
---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ERROR: Could not load vessel module: G422
>>> [Vessel::LoadModule | .\Vessel.cpp | 5442]
---------------------------------------------------------------
Finished initialising status
Finished initialising camera
Finished initialising panels
Finished setting up render state

 

[Photonic]

Should I be adding fuel (KSC 15 scenario) to be able to reach orbit? I've tried 10 flights and while I hit T3 with ~70-80k fuel I've never been able to do better than 120k x -2M w/ 10k remaining flying at 5 degree ascent.

 

[Frogisis]

I finally tried it again after reinstalling Orbiter and deciding to skim this thread since I can't get the html manual to work, and dang, this thing is great - It's what I always wanted the DGEX to be. When it's done it'll definitely take it's place alongside the other must-have spaceplanes like the XR2 and DGIV.

It's got what has to be my favorite VC in all of Orbiter, too, both in terms of functionality/layout and style. The whole ship is just very tastefully designed, inside and outside, and has this grown-up, cosmopolitan "21st century World State" vibe to it I really like.
I'm definitely looking forward to more documentation, though - Right now figuring out how to turn on the RCS was an adventure in itself. I like the fact that you have to do it at all, though, and that little pods pop out of the nose; that is really cool.
I'm assuming the inside of the bay and the doors on the bottom of the ship have yet to be textured, too?

 

[Cras]

Should I be adding fuel (KSC 15 scenario) to be able to reach orbit? I've tried 10 flights and while I hit T3 with ~70-80k fuel I've never been able to do better than 120k x -2M w/ 10k remaining flying at 5 degree ascent.

No, you can definately reach orbit with the fuel she has got. You just got to keep it smooth. Wild and severe corrections will only cost you.

 

[Photonic]

Tried another few times and made it with 22k / 14k / 1.5k. So room for improvement. Many thanks to Moach for the challenge and to EndeavourCmdr for a specific ascent profile.

 

[Cras]

One thing I have noticed is that not much fuel is required for powered approach and landing. So I go all out and use those rockets as long as I can, and try to burn up all that oxidizer, because after the T3, it is just useless weight. Keep the nose fairly close to level, and dont be afraid to even dip it down to a negative pitch to help out with raising the perigee.

 

[Moach]

well, in fact - the cargo bay and some other things have already been textured... i was just hoping for a more meaningful set of features before i'd pack it up again...

but perhaps i got too greedy - i might just polish up the current set and release what i have so far...

the engines performance code has been revised to some extent - now it flies a little closer to what a scramjet should feel like...
but then, the ascent profile display is a little off now... i should probably check into that again before releasing anything

 

[SolarLiner]

Hum ...
My G42-200 has a maximum thrust force of 0.00N ... Who is the engineer ? :hmm:

 

[ED_4]

Hum ...
My G42-200 has a maximum thrust force of 0.00N ... Who is the engineer ? :hmm:

That would be Moach, who posted just above you. The G42-200 Starliner is his baby. :thumbup:

 

[Cras]

Hum ...
My G42-200 has a maximum thrust force of 0.00N ... Who is the engineer ? :hmm:

You need to work to get the engines up and running. Fuel pumps, a start sequence. Its not the XR-2.