"Zensus" 2011 in Germany

[Topper]

Hello,

today i've got a mail, that i'm selected for the "Zensus" 2011 here in Germany.
I've read, that 10% are selected to participate these "Zensus"!?

I'm against that and i will not participate, but a law obliges me.
In this questionnaire there a sensible questions about my religion,
education, national ancestry and so on.

There is also a law, that everybody can decide witch data somone would provide and witch data somone don't want to provide. The only exepition is "if there is a hihger interest...".
So in the case of the zensus, the goverment says, there is a higher interest.
But who defines this, that this case is given? God? The Pope? Miss Merkel?
Why the folk can not decide it itself by a referendum?

The procedure is as follows:
- I've got a mail (today) that someone wil interview me on the next thurseday at a given time frame
- If i'm not in my flat, he would push a mail with a new date in my mailbox
- If i'm not there again, he will push this: https://www.zensus2011.de/uploads/tx_templavoila/Fragebogen_Haushaltebefragung_20101007a.pdf
in my mailbox and i have to answer all the questions.
- If i will not answer, I have to pay 5000 €uro

I've thought about this a bit what I can do.
If the man rings, i say "I'm sorry, I'm in the shower. 10Min later i will open the door for him and say him, i don't want to let him into my flat.
That, after 3 minutes, i say "I'm sorry, i need to go to the toilett, please wait here"
Then i will wait until he has gone away ;-)

If i will get a mail with the Questionnaire, i will send it back in many pieces with a comment "sorry, a visiting dog has torn it. Please send me a new one" (i have no dog myself) ;-)
... and so on ...
;-)

No in seriously, i think i have to answer this i don't have 5000€ to pay the price of my privacy.... :-(

And that everybody can understand me, i have no problems to answer all this questions here at the forum or to my friends, but i don't want that they are stored anywere on a database where i don't know who can access them and what they want to do with this data...
...
Please let me know how do you think about that...

 

[Jarvitä]

Don't worry, it's just for statistical purposes. Nobody cares about you enough to violate your privacy specifically.

 

[astrosammy]

So confusing... No one told me that there are three different questionnaires... My parents only got the orange one, that every house or flat owner gets. But I'd love to answer one just to write "cult of the probe" in the religion line. :lol:

BTW...

 

[Urwumpe]

I understand what you mean. This census has good intents, and good intents always end bad.

Take alone the question for religion, that doesn't permit you to be atheist. You have to believe in something for answering this question.

Scientifically this is all a big pile of poo. The questions are badly selected, your privacy is not ensured at all, you have to give your correct name etc. of course just for forcing you to answer correctly.

The problem is: The bad guys have the law on their side. You have to answer the questions or pay the fine. It is really good if you can make the laws suitable for your own tastes. Also the protests have so far been a joke compared to the first German census.

I don't know what I would do... I am currently thinking, preparing a NDA and a waiver for my private data for the poor guy that has to come around would be legally correct. Let him confirm that he has my data with his name and sign it, and that he is responsible for all abusive use of the data. Maybe I can't force him to be responsible beyond delivering the data to his evil overlords, but then, these people could also get legally bombarded by requests based on the standard information laws.

Practically speaking: If they refuse to answer based on these laws, they commit a crime. If they answer wrongfully and your data is not handled as defined by the census laws, you can sue them. Which would be fun, since you could mobilize more people quickly then.

 

[martins]

But I'd love to answer one just to write "cult of the probe" in the religion line. :lol:

You might be able to spark a new religion there. Although I'm not sure if the probe will be able to raise as many followers as the Jedi Knights (0.7% in a past census here in the UK, and apparently 2.6% in Brighton :blink You'd have to make it attractive by adding perks, maybe along the lines of the Pastafarian paradise ...

 

[tl8]

We have a Australia wide census this year. The major difference being that 100% of people answer it. As the Australian Bureau of Statistics run it, it generally runs pretty well. The take privacy seriously and normally have no problems.

General Information
http://www.abs.gov.au/websitedbs/D3310114.nsf/home/2011+Census:+About+the+2011+Census

Privacy Information:
http://www.abs.gov.au/websitedbs/D3310114.nsf/home/Census:+Privacy+and+Confidentiality

 

[jedidia]

But who defines this, that this case is given? God?

Actually, Censuses are forbidden by God in the old testament... :lol:

 

[Topper]

Two youtube clips lol...
I know that the first one is out of date a bit, because the law has been canceled by the highest court here, but it's funny and with english subtitles ;-) ...
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdIA0jeW-24[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CKbNE5ql0A[/ame]

 

[RichWall]

You'd have to make it attractive by adding perks, maybe along the lines of the Pastafarian paradise ...

But then the bureaucrats would need to know if you are Red Sauce Pastafarian, a White Sauce Pastafarian or an extremist using olive oil only.

 

[Wishbone]

I skipped the recent Russian census, and they had to invent all their data... Judging by what Urwumpe says about bad questionnaires, German statistics may be only marginally better. Love American statistics though (like Samuel Clemens )

 

[SiberianTiger]

I skipped the recent Russian census, and they had to invent all their data... Judging by what Urwumpe says about bad questionnaires, German statistics may be only marginally better. Love American statistics though (like Samuel Clemens )

Me too. Now I'm thinking should I go to Putin-next-dozen-years-presidency approval festival (called election) next year, or not.

Imagine what would Western media say if there was a law to make census participation mandatory in Russia: CheKa returns, last vestige of freedom vanishes, etc. But even if they accept such a law, then severity of laws will be, as usual, compensated by non-insistence in abiding to them.

 

[Artlav]

Why provide a name in the census?
If they want to count population, all you need is to count - sign here, sir.
If they want to count who believes what, then anonymous questionnaire would have much higher truth fraction than one that would require one to sign under it.

Makes little sense.

 

[Arthur Dent]

You could always lie about your data (although it is forbidden).

If they find out that you've lied, they violated the data protection laws.

 

[SiberianTiger]

You could always lie about your data (although it is forbidden).

If they find out that you've lied, they violated the data protection laws.

Will you be fined if you lie?

 

[tl8]

Will you be fined if you lie?

Normally this is the case. It can be hard to prove though so would be somewhat rare.

 

[Izack]

We just had the Census in Canada last week. It's required by law for every household but doesn't happen every year. They've shortened it down to around ten questions, though, from the many many that it apparently used to have. The questions are mostly about the ages, genders and marital status of everyone in the house (you can see a little bit of social progress this time around with new options like 'married, same sex.') The funny thing is, the mail system got it messed up and we received our warning about handing it in within one day before we even received the Census! Also, my grandparents next door who don't have a computer got an online census, while we got a mail-in one with the only Internet-enabled computer for six klicks around! :rofl:

 

[HarvesteR]

We had the census here last year too, but if I recall correctly, you did have the right to not share information that is too personal, like how much you get paid, and stuff like that...

Although there should be nothing to worry about sharing that kind of information with the census anyways, they will just use it to plot a point in a boring graph (no offense meant to graph enthusiasts)

Oh, and IIRC, back in '06, over a hundred thousand people in Britain told the Census that their religion was Jedi. That makes it more popular than many other actual religions :lol:

Cheers

 

[Artlav]

Religion or gender preferences being too personal i can understand, but

how much you get paid

how could that be too personal?
Won't burglars find it out anyway, like by observing the place's apparent richness?

 

[Turbinator]

Wow, if the government has to ask the citizens in the Census, on how much they get paid. What does that say about their organization? In Canada there is no such question, as the government already knows this.

 

[Izack]

Wow, if the government has to ask the citizens in the Census, on how much they get paid. What does that say about their organization? In Canada there is no such question, as the government already knows this.

Yes, I have to wonder for those governments who don't know their citizens' income...who are they taxing?