XR2 Public Release Candidate Testing

dbeachy1

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The lower panel can not be scrolled verticaly. This is bad if you run orbiter below a vertical resolution of 606 pixels, as you are unable to control the turbopacks. If you can't make it scrollable I suggest moving the turbopack control a few pixels up. Although 800x600 is not exactly a "supported" resolution, it would be nice to make the ship usable with it. Especialy since a lot existing beamers only accept 800x600 and some laptops require it to output a TV signal. (Some require 640x480, but friendship ends at some point)
rant: yes, 606 pixels is accurate. no, don't ask. I said DON'T!

Thinking about this some more, I can add a configuration file parameter named 'EnableLowerPanelScrolling' that will allow the lower panel to be scrolled up (toward the top), which will allow lower-resolution screens to access the turbopack controls. Scrolling will be disabled by default, but if you set 'EnableLowerPanelScrolling=1' you will be able to scroll the panel up. This will be in the RC1 release.
 

TSPenguin

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Good choice.
I still don't get why you wouldn't allow it. Just like you can look above the middle panel and out the windows, why wouldn't you be able to look beyond the lower panel to your legs?!

It doesn't really matter, as very very few people will run it at 800x600 or 640x480.
It is more a matter of principle to me. And I guess it just is setting a flag differently, so why restrict the user? It is not like anyone would complain that he can scroll that panel up.

Happy Orbiting a vacation
 

dbeachy1

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Good choice.
I still don't get why you wouldn't allow it. Just like you can look above the middle panel and out the windows, why wouldn't you be able to look beyond the lower panel to your legs?!

It doesn't really matter, as very very few people will run it at 800x600 or 640x480.
It is more a matter of principle to me. And I guess it just is setting a flag differently, so why restrict the user? It is not like anyone would complain that he can scroll that panel up.

Unfortunately it's trickier than that -- in 2D cockpit mode there are no VC graphics rendered at all (pilot's legs, etc.), so if the panel scrolls off the screen the Orbiter core renders the external view as defined by that 2D panel's camera location and vector (which defaults to straight ahead along the ship's centerline). If panel scrollout is enabled, the core allows the user to scroll the panel until it is partially or even entirely off-screen, so at that point the user would be "looking through the lower hull," which would be an unexpected effect. [This is the same reason that neither the default DG nor any of the add-on DG vessels allow the lower panel to be scrolled vertically.]

Now, allowing panel scrollout by default wouldn't really matter except that based on past experience with unexpected behavior it would likely result in a bunch of bug reports from users who (reasonably enough) wouldn't understand why they can see through the lower hull to the outside when they scroll the panel. So that's why it needs to be an optional configuration setting: users will (hopefully!) only enable that if they understand why the external view will be visible when they scroll the panel too far, as will be detailed in the comment block for the configuration setting. So in a nutshell, the reason for making it optional is to prevent unnecessary bug reports from users asking, "Why can I see through the ship's hull when I scroll the lower panel?"

Happy Orbiting a vacation

Thanks -- so far it's been a blast! :beach:
 

dbeachy1

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TS was referring to the vacation I'm on this week (at the beach). :)
 

TSPenguin

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Unfortunately it's trickier than that -- in 2D cockpit mode there are no VC graphics rendered at all (pilot's legs, etc.), so if the panel scrolls off the screen the Orbiter core renders the external view as defined by that 2D panel's camera location and vector (which defaults to straight ahead along the ship's centerline). If panel scrollout is enabled, the core allows the user to scroll the panel until it is partially or even entirely off-screen, so at that point the user would be "looking through the lower hull," which would be an unexpected effect. [This is the same reason that neither the default DG nor any of the add-on DG vessels allow the lower panel to be scrolled vertically.]

Now, allowing panel scrollout by default wouldn't really matter except that based on past experience with unexpected behavior it would likely result in a bunch of bug reports from users who (reasonably enough) wouldn't understand why they can see through the lower hull to the outside when they scroll the panel. So that's why it needs to be an optional configuration setting: users will (hopefully!) only enable that if they understand why the external view will be visible when they scroll the panel too far, as will be detailed in the comment block for the configuration setting. So in a nutshell, the reason for making it optional is to prevent unnecessary bug reports from users asking, "Why can I see through the ship's hull when I scroll the lower panel?"

That looking at your legs was only a matter of speech anyway.
I did not know that his bug occurs. I guess one would need to design a ship with a partial glass floor. That would make landing in water great fun! :cheers:

I understand you design decission now and support it. It really should stay an option and not become default.
 

James.Denholm

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3.3 tons should be roughly your average mercedes. Try moving that around. In an enviroment where you will have to do everything twice! Accelerate and deaccelerate. Sure it can be done, but then again there are people swallowing swords right now...

That's a fair point, however one must remember three things:

1. 2 hours (UMMU default oxygen) should be more than enough time to do so, especially if the pilot is an experienced EVAer.

2. You can easily grab the UMMU with one of those Universal RMSs, making the acceleration - move - deceleration a lot easier. Because it dosen't happen. The UMMU is still neccacary, because it's a lot easier to manuver precisely. Although, with 3.3 tonnes, it sure would be slow work, but that's not the point.

Anyway.
 

Countdown84

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After a few more test flights, here are some comments:

-I noticed yesterday that the Main and LOX refuel hatches can be opened even if the APU is offline. This doesn't seem consistent with the rest of the hatches (like hover doors).

-After you EVA a crewmember and switch to the UMMU, it seems that more often than not the field of view is set so narrow that you don't see the edges of the helmet (the "panel"). It's easy enough to fix, but is there a way to set that to a typical value when the UMMU is created?

A little note on UMMU implementation:

I understand how your system works with "XIx" in the misc id field for UMMU astronauts, and I know that you've done it that way for customizability. But, I've also noticed that many other UMMU addons seem to have standardized on the system introduced in the DGIV. I.e., they interpret misc id's like "sci," "vip," or "tech," giving them the appropriate rank and mesh file. Since the XR series use the "XIx" system to define custom meshes and ranks, if I transfer a crew member from a DGIV or a Prelude that uses the other system, he/she loses their correct rank and mesh.

I really like being able to use UMMU to do persistent-character scenarios. E.G. pick up the VIP, John Doe, from a station, transfer him to a ship, shuttle him over to a PreludeII base, and drop him off. All the while he retains the same name, rank and mesh. Ideally, all UMMU authors would eventually agree on a predefined set of misc-id's so that everyone's addons could allow these traits to persist. That said, it's ALSO really cool to be able to define custom ranks like you can in the XR config file. It seems like one could have a standard set of misc ID's that all addons recognize without hampering the ability to define custom ones like you have done.

Would it be possible to add a parser for the "standard" DGIV ranks to the XR vessels? Leave everything you have with the customizable "XIx" system, but just write some additional statements so that if UMMU's with the DGIV-style misc ID's enter the XR vessel, they retain a rank and mesh file that make sense.

Just a thought. This would make all the XR's more compatible with the DGIV, PreludeII, Ceres, ESS Station, and some other great addons...
 

tl8

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See Doug, Now the XR2 is so perfect that we are now nitpicking to the extreme!

Countdown84, I understand what you are saying, but how is one going to refuel the APU fuel if the fuel hatches don't open ;)

I must say that I didn't test the UMMU transfer that well. However that problem doesn't really surprise me.

I am not sure how easy the fixes for the UMMU would be though.
 

Countdown84

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I think I found a bug/unintended behavior in the refueling system:

-Start the Brighton Beach scenario
-dump some fuel out of the main or scram tank
-go to the payload editor and load a fuel module. The module fills the main tank as it should.
-Delete the module via the payload editor. The tank fills some more! (magic fuel :)
-Do this a couple of times (add fuel tank, then delete - your tank will fill up)
-Now try to dump fuel. Fuel dump will not work no matter how long you hold the button.

Now we have a way to "cheat" and refuel our SCRAM engines in space!!
 

tl8

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I don't think I can reproduce on my main install or on my clean.

However, Doug can you decide if the Lox tank is 350kg(From the cfg file) or 10400kg as in the picture
 

dbeachy1

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However, Doug can you decide if the Lox tank is 350kg(From the cfg file) or 10400kg as in the picture

The 10400 KG tank is a full LOX tank; the 350 KG mass is for the empty tank only. The propellant mass is tracked as a propellant resource.

Empty mass is specified via this line in XR2PayloadLOX.cfg:

Code:
Mass = 355.2  ; empty mass [kg]

Propellant (or in this case, LOX) capacity is specified via this setting:

Code:
; (OPTIONAL) maximum quantity of LOX this payload can hold (in kg)
PropellantResource3 = 10545.0

Total mass, then, equals empty mass + any propellant mass in the tank.

-I noticed yesterday that the Main and LOX refuel hatches can be opened even if the APU is offline. This doesn't seem consistent with the rest of the hatches (like hover doors).

Actually, that is by design: the resupply hatches are electric instead of hydraulic. Otherwise you would never be able to resupply your APU fuel if it ran out because you could not open the resupply hatch.

--After you EVA a crewmember and switch to the UMMU, it seems that more often than not the field of view is set so narrow that you don't see the edges of the helmet (the "panel"). It's easy enough to fix, but is there a way to set that to a typical value when the UMMU is created?

That is handled entirely via UMMu: each astronaut is a separate vessel in Orbiter, and the vessel code is internal to the UMMu DLL.

Would it be possible to add a parser for the "standard" DGIV ranks to the XR vessels? Leave everything you have with the customizable "XIx" system, but just write some additional statements so that if UMMU's with the DGIV-style misc ID's enter the XR vessel, they retain a rank and mesh file that make sense.

That is a possibility; I'll add a TODO note to look into that -- that may or may not make it into RC1.

I think I found a bug/unintended behavior in the refueling system:

-Start the Brighton Beach scenario
-dump some fuel out of the main or scram tank
-go to the payload editor and load a fuel module. The module fills the main tank as it should.
-Delete the module via the payload editor. The tank fills some more! (magic fuel :)

Actually the tank does not fill any further when you delete a bay tank: what happens when you delete a bay tank is that your total fuel capacity is reduced from, say, 16,746 kg (internal + 3350 kg bay tank) to internal tank only, which is 13,396 kg. Therefore, your percentage of fuel will increase even though your actual fuel mass is unchanged. If you watch the fuel mass gauge carefully when you delete a bay tank you will see that the actual quantity does not change even though your percentage full goes up because your total fuel capacity went down.

-Do this a couple of times (add fuel tank, then delete - your tank will fill up)
-Now try to dump fuel. Fuel dump will not work no matter how long you hold the button.

[EDIT]
I have been trying that here and I cannot reproduce it (also, the code that times the button press is quite straightforward). Thinking about this some more, are you sure you didn't accidentally hit the 'R' key one too many times and set time acc to 1/10th normal speed? At 1/10th normal speed you would have to hold the fuel dump button down for 10x as long as normal (20 seconds). If it happens again, please double-check that time acceleration is set to 1x and not 1/10x.

Now we have a way to "cheat" and refuel our SCRAM engines in space!!

Yes, you can always cheat and add bay tanks via the payload editor and then delete them. I could prevent adding payload tanks in mid-flight, but I'd just as soon not limit that since the payload editor is really designed to be used to set up a scenario, and some scenarios are created in mid-flight. Therefore, it is up to the user to decide whether he wants to cheat or not, and in any case, the user could always cheat by exiting the sim, editing the '(Current State)' scenario, and reloading.
 

dbeachy1

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OK guys, public Release Candidate One is a go! This is a public test release, so everyone is welcome to download it and test it. However, I do ask that testers follow these guidelines:

1) This is a Release Candidate build, which means that only bug fixes will be performed before the official 1.0 release. Please do not submit feature requests at this point unless it is a suggestion for the Mk II release coming in 2009.

2) If you find a problem, please retest in a clean Orbiter installation before submitting a bug report. Based on past experience, if the problem only occurs with third-party add-ons installed 99.9% of the time it is caused by a buggy third-party add-on. If you submit a bug report, please state whether the problem occurs in a clean Orbiter installation with only the XR2, OrbiterSound 3.5, and UMMu 1.5 installed.

3) Please be as specific as possible about the problem and provide detailed steps on how to reproduce it.

The download link is below; this link is not posted on my Web site yet: http://www.dougsorbiterpage.com/downloads/download.php?file=85

Happy flying! :cheers:
 

Woo482

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I am downloading this now :) (i have just fixed my computer after a virus attack)
 

Woo482

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is there any chance of a faster download link its going slow for me
 

Woo482

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my last file had the windows cannot open this file and I will tell you if try 2 works in about a few minutes
 

dbeachy1

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I just did another test and I'm getting 8.5 megabits-per-second (~900 KB/second) here. If it's slow for some of you it is likely a problem somewhere between your PC and godaddy.com. Just give it some time and/or try again a little later.

If you have problems opening the file, it is likely the file was corrupted during your download; this is the exact same zip file that the XR2 beta team used for the last release. Disable any "download accelerators" you are using and use a program like WinZip to uncompress the installation file.
 

Woo482

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it does not work can you upload it on rapid share or some think ?
 

dbeachy1

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woo, let's continue this on PM. Thanks. :)
 
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