Advanced Question Starship Weaponry

[Hielor]

It took me about 15 to 25 seconds to complete that barrel roll. I've taken into consideration of the fact that the wing slows is roll speed down. So, I'll simply make the control surfaces take up more of the wing front to back and re-enforce the wing with support structures inside the wing. I'm not going to try to make it do 400 degrees in one second, but 200 should be good enough.

 

[garyw]

Mass inertia, man.
If a 747 do a 400 degrees per second barrel roll, the wings will snap off at near-supersonic speed.

A B-747 DID do a barrel roll. It was done by a test pilot from Boeing. It certainly wasn't at even 200 degress per second (which is a LOT of roll!)

He was told to never do that again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_367-80#The_barrel_roll

 

[Hielor]

A B-747 DID do a barrel roll. It was done by a test pilot from Boeing. It certainly wasn't at even 200 degress per second (which is a LOT of roll!)

He was told to never do that again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_367-80#The_barrel_roll

Not a 747. Prototype for the 707. Rather smaller.

 

[TCR_500]

I'm talking about the starship's menuverablility in an atmosphere. I'll be satisfied if I can get at lease 120 degrees in one second, but I'd preffer to get it up to 200.

 

[Urwumpe]

If you get it to 10°/s you can be already happy at the "payload" you plan to have.

Also, why do you want to fly in the atmosphere at all? You are an easy target there.

I think even the Black Dart does not get more than 90°/s, but should have about 440°/s² on-set. Would have to measure it to be sure. With and without TVC.

 

[Hielor]

I'm talking about the starship's menuverablility in an atmosphere. I'll be satisfied if I can get at lease 120 degrees in one second, but I'd preffer to get it up to 200.

That's a ridiculous and unrealistic value for a bomber-sized craft. You'd kill anyone who wasn't on the roll axis of your craft.

 

[TCR_500]

If I'm in the atmosphere at all, It'll be to either land or take off. Once I get up to speed, I'll put the nose up 45 degrees and after about 5 to 10 minutes, eject the stage one booster which is basicly another wing with a few rockets on the back. Once ejected, "hovering" engines on the booster will fire. These engines are on the top of the oversized wing and are ment to do a three second burn to seperate itself from the starship. By the way, do you want to know the name of the starship?

 

[garyw]

If I'm in the atmosphere at all, It'll be to either land or take off.

So why the 200 degress a second rotation rate requirement?????

By the way, do you want to know the name of the starship?

No. No I really don't.

 

[Urwumpe]

By the way, do you want to know the name of the starship?

No. The name of the space craft is the least of your worries. Even the design of the bridge is completely unimportant now, as you have still not fixed the design of the ship, the bridge shall control.

 

[TCR_500]

Well, I'm not sure anymore. If the ship runs into trouble all I realy need to do is fire up the main engines and it'll out-fly anything (including a missile). The ship's estimated dimentions are 255 feet long, 25 feet wide, and 20 feet high. Wingspan is probably 200 feet and the virtical stabalizer is going an additional 25 feet.

 

[Hielor]

Well, I'm not sure anymore. If the ship runs into trouble all I realy need to do is fire up the main engines and it'll out-fly anything (including a missile). The ship's estimated dimentions are 255 feet long, 25 feet wide, and 20 feet high. Wingspan is probably 200 feet and the virtical stabalizer is going an additional 25 feet.

That kind of defeats the purpose of missiles, if any ship can outrun them.

I thought you were trying to be at least marginally realistic? With the manueverability of a fighter and engines that can outrun missiles, you clearly aren't.

 

[garyw]

Sounds to me like you need to get back to the drawing board TCR.

 

[Urwumpe]

Well, I'm not sure anymore. If the ship runs into trouble all I realy need to do is fire up the main engines and it'll out-fly anything (including a missile).

if you can build a spacecraft, which has such accelerations, i can build a missile, which can accelerate even faster, as the missile does not need such stupid stuff such like life support or armor...

 

[TCR_500]

Then I'll build another class of starship that can out-fly that missile. This one's obviously not going to be able to menuver as quickly as I want it, but combined with the stage one booster, it'll leave the atmosphere in only seconds after take-off.

 

[Sky Captain]

XR5 can do a barrel roll in ~10 seconds that is 36 deg per second. 120 or more would be a bit unrealistic for craft of that size although in Orbiter you can get whatever you want - it`s just setting the numbers right.

Then I'll build another class of starship that can out-fly that missile. This one's obviously not going to be able to menuver as quickly as I want it, but combined with the stage one booster, it'll leave the atmosphere in only seconds after take-off.

Be careful, you might accidentally kill your crew with too much G as I did when I tested out how aerobatic DGIV is

 

[Urwumpe]

Then I'll build another class of starship that can out-fly that missile. This one's obviously not going to be able to menuver as quickly as I want it, but combined with the stage one booster, it'll leave the atmosphere in only seconds after take-off.

Then I build a new missile. The missile needs less fuel mass, no life support, no crew, no large wings for landing at low speeds, no hover thrusters, no special weapon deployment systems, smaller and lighter sensors, etc...

You can NEVER build a manned spacecraft, which can not be outrun by a missile.

 

[Hielor]

Then I'll build another class of starship that can out-fly that missile. This one's obviously not going to be able to menuver as quickly as I want it, but combined with the stage one booster, it'll leave the atmosphere in only seconds after take-off.

And your crew will leave behind this mortal coil as they are crushed with that ridiculous acceleration and the vessel is vaporized from going that fast.

As Urwumpe points out, you can never make a manned craft outrun a missile of the same tech level--All I have to do to make a faster missile than your craft is take the same engine and remove the life support and crew quarters. Whoops, I win.

 

[TCR_500]

Well, everyone has a seat facing the front of the space craft with rear and side head restraints kind of like what you'd find in a Sprint Cup car. The side head restraints are going to be made out of some kind of plastic so it doesn't block the view of the pilots. Also, the rear head restraints are will give slightly under high accelerative g's. The head restraints are kind of a new idea aboard the star ship though.

You have forgotten about the star ships defence system. Just send another missile to intersect it and the space craft is still in one piece. Also, my next space craft will be made for combat and will have several layers of armor to protect itself along with the plasma shield.

 

[IthyStPete]

I'd post the facepalm, except that it's been done twice already.

 

[garyw]

Well, everyone has a seat facing the front of the space craft with rear and side head restraints kind of like what you'd find in a Sprint Cup car. The side head restraints are going to be made out of some kind of plastic so it doesn't block the view of the pilots. Also, the rear head restraints are will give slightly under high accelerative g's. The head restraints are kind of a new idea aboard the star ship though.

You have forgotten about the star ships defence system. Just send another missile to intersect it and the space craft is still in one piece. Also, my next space craft will be made for combat and will have several layers of armor to protect itself along with the plasma shield.

A suggestion - make the first one to test out the limits of Orbiters API. You might find you hit some problems or is this something you are building in your back yard?