OS WARS MEGA THREAD (Now debating proprietary vs. open-source!)

[Notebook]

Thanks Fabri91, its my most recent machine and has lots on it. I'm backing up all my stuff from it, and going to let Windows 10 do its worst and see what happens. It came pre-installed Windows 7 with lots of HP stuff on it.
It was a good machine, but seems to be caught between two stools at the moment.

N.

 

[TMac3000]

Might I recommend just switching to Linux? Ubuntu and Linux Mint both have a very wide range of hardware support, and don't cost a penny.

 

[Enjo]

Might I recommend just switching to Linux? Ubuntu and Linux Mint both have a very wide range of hardware support, and don't cost a penny.

It looks like you want to start an OS war.

 

[Notebook]

Always thought of Linux as a specialist/enthusiast thing. I really don't want to get into operating systems, just my laptop working again! Really don't know what happened I put Windows 10 on in September I think, its just the last few weeks its thrown a wobbly.

N.

 

[Artlav]

a very wide range of hardware support

Not exactly.
Linux seem to be harsher on hardware, or more conforming to standards than windows.
Issues like the custom baud rates won't set on USB-TTL converters or USB extension cords issues pop up every now and then.

I.e. http://www.eevblog.com/forum/microcontrollers/knock-off-usb-blaster-in-linux-issues/
Solution A: https://www.reactos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14746
Solution B: USB hub at the tip of the cable.

It's these rough edges that keep catching you and etching your nerves.
And finally, some very comfortable software from Windows just does not exist on Linux, like TortoiseGit or Total Commander.

Not show-stopping, but it's like moving to another country - you have to get used to everything being different and adjust your environment.

It looks like you want to start an OS war.

Isn't that the name of this thread?

---------- Post added at 19:41 ---------- Previous post was at 19:37 ----------

Always thought of Linux as a specialist/enthusiast thing.

More like industrial vs consumer - most of the world's computers run on Linux variants, just like most of the world's factories run on hardware you can't just buy in a shop.

It can do anything in the same way that you can make a factory for any specific goal, provided that you know how (or hire someone) to set it all up and maintain it.

So, yeah. Not exactly something to just install and forget for anything above the simple use-cases.

 

[Fabri91]

Thanks Fabri91, its my most recent machine and has lots on it. I'm backing up all my stuff from it, and going to let Windows 10 do its worst and see what happens. It came pre-installed Windows 7 with lots of HP stuff on it.
It was a good machine, but seems to be caught between two stools at the moment.

N.

It may be an issue relating to most laptops/ready-built PCs being filled with crapware from vendors. A clean install is worth a shot, since you can download the OS's .iso image from Microsoft's site. Should you need any help feel free to PM me.

Re. Linux: I have only occasionally dabbled with it, and then almost only with the most "beginner friendly" variants such as Ubuntu and Mint, but I still find it fascinating how widespread it has become. In our household none of our personal devices use it, but our single-drive NAS, TV and probably the router and access point use it. Impressive for an OS that was described as practically unportable by its creator.

 

[TMac3000]

It looks like you want to start an OS war.

Naagh...maybe just a quick guerilla action

Always thought of Linux as a specialist/enthusiast thing. I really don't want to get into operating systems, just my laptop working again! Really don't know what happened I put Windows 10 on in September I think, its just the last few weeks its thrown a wobbly.

N.

I was a Windows man for a long, long time...but I've been using various distros of Linux for about six or seven years (I installed Fedora 9 at the tail end of 2009 IIRC). I actually find it much easier than Windows. The "hard" stuff (like the command line) is mostly optional, and where it isn't there are a lot of "default" options to help guide you. And Wine will run most of your favorite Windows software.

Not exactly.
it's like moving to another country - you have to get used to everything being different and adjust your environment.

That is one of the most intelligent quotes about Linux I've ever heard. Well said indeed:thumbup:

Re. Linux: I have only occasionally dabbled with it, and then almost only with the most "beginner friendly" variants such as Ubuntu and Mint, but I still find it fascinating how widespread it has become.

You could say Windows is kind of like the monarchy in England--it's a figurehead, while Linux is the real power behind the throne:lol:

In our household none of our personal devices use it, but our single-drive NAS, TV and probably the router and access point use it. Impressive for an OS that was described as practically unportable by its creator.

[/quote]
It may have been unportable at the time--things have changed a lot in 25 years

 

[Urwumpe]

More like industrial vs consumer - most of the world's computers run on Linux variants, just like most of the world's factories run on hardware you can't just buy in a shop.

Oh well, from my experience, most runs on hardware you can buy in a shop. The only difference is often the software configuration that is used. A lot is done by clustering standard PCs together before the need for a true server rack exists.

But Linux is in that context the most common solution, especially because of its powerful virtualization tools. Also you can really enjoy Linux in terms of networking, because it is way more professional to configure for specific tasks - not automatically easier than windows, but if you have to configure 20 PCs and manage the configuration changes, Linux saves you a lot of work.

But I don't recommend Linux for gaming.

 

[Linguofreak]

Not exactly.
Linux seem to be harsher on hardware, or more conforming to standards than windows.
Issues like the custom baud rates won't set on USB-TTL converters or USB extension cords issues pop up every now and then.

Linux tends to have spottier (but still fairly good) support for cutting-edge hardware, and best-in-the-market support for legacy hardware. Open source drivers take a while to write, but once they're there, they tend to remain available for the life of the hardware and longer (not exactly a "driver" thing, but Linux only stopped supporting the 386 in the last year or two, IIRC).

 

[Enjo]

It looks like you want to start an OS war.

Isn't that the name of this thread?

This is exactly what my joke was about.

 

[jedidia]

The "hard" stuff (like the command line) is mostly optional

The command line is optional? and hard? :blink:

Anyways, for me there's still two reason to use windows regularly: The first is directX, which is still the most performant GPU-interface out there.
The second is developer tools... I mean, seriously, just take a look at what Visual Studio 2015 can do. Not only does it have the best intellisense and code generation I have ever seen, but compilation of C# for Android and IOs, as well as fully integrated Unity and ASP .NET support? That's serious s**t right there. There's just no IDE that can match Visual Studio even in the slightest.

Now, as long as I don't have to do anything that needs any of those things (mostly low-level server stuff or Java apps really, which visual studio doesn't do for... shall we say political reasons?), I'll go with Linux any day. If I want a system that just works reliably and doesn't force me to jump through a dozen hoops, I'll go with Linux. If I need a root-server, I'll go with Linux. If I have to make a decently complex Web-app, or want to play a game, Windows it is...

 

[Artlav]

Linux tends to have spottier (but still fairly good) support for cutting-edge hardware, and best-in-the-market support for legacy hardware

Well, things i named are late 90s, early 00s vintage.

The first is directX, which is still the most performant GPU-interface out there.

Refer to the Space Engineers thread for details on why DX is useless.

just take a look at what Visual Studio 2015 can do

Pretty lagfest.

the best intellisense and code generation

Tons of annoying underlines for stupid reasons.

compilation of C#

Weird, that bubble didn't burst yet?

and IOs

Since when can you program for IOS in C#?
Looks like i missed something.

fully integrated Unity

Eh? I keep hearing that word.
Is that what makes KSP a lagfest?

and ASP .NET

Huh?
Who raised this 90s zombie?

There's just no IDE that can match Visual Studio even in the slightest.

On that, i agree.
For some stupid reason all the most comfortable dev tools are Windows-only.
And if you think "write your own" is easy, i tried (answer is "nope").
I never realized how many micro-features there is in the user interface.
20% of the work covers 90% of it, but it's the remaining 10% that etches your nerves in use.
No wonder people keep skipping that in open source software...
I guess the reason is not that stupid after all.

 

[Hielor]

Refer to the Space Engineers thread for details on why DX is useless.

Wait, what? DX is "useless" because it occasionally introduces new features that weren't supported by previous versions?

I think that's called "progress" and it's the reason that DX is preferred to OpenGL for cutting-edge games.

Pretty lagfest.

You must be doing something wrong, or maybe it's your computer. VS isn't very laggy at all for me.

Tons of annoying underlines for stupid reasons.

Typically, if you see an underline, it's not going to compile anyway. Not sure why that's a "stupid reason."

Weird, that bubble didn't burst yet?

Apparently not.

Since when can you program for IOS in C#?
Looks like i missed something.

Since February 2013 at the latest...
Yes, you did miss something, apparently. http://xamarin.com/visual-studio

Eh? I keep hearing that word.
Is that what makes KSP a lagfest?

Not sure why this is part of an OS discussion, but Unity is a fairly solid choice for a lot of different types of games.

KSP is not one of those games.

Honestly, Unity was a bad choice for KSP from the start, and that's why it's a lagfest.

Huh?
Who raised this 90s zombie?

"Zombie"? ASP.NET didn't even show up until 2002, so I'm not sure how it's from the 90s...

It's also under active development and widely used by people who don't want websites that look like they're from the 90s.

 

[Enjo]

[ASP.NET] is also under active development and widely used by people who don't want websites that look like they're from the 90s.

I worked for such person for some time. He has to reboot his Windows server every night due to memory leaks in MS software, which ASP.NET makes him dependent on.

 

[Hielor]

I worked for such person for some time. He has to reboot his Windows server every night due to memory leaks in MS software, which ASP.NET makes him dependent on.

Perhaps he should update to the latest version. Such severe memory leaks don't tend to stick around long.

More likely the memory leak is being blamed on Microsoft software but is actually being caused by something else.

 

[Enjo]

More likely the memory leak is being blamed on Microsoft software but is actually being caused by something else.

So are you saying that the entire Win32 development scene is crooked? I'd tend to agree with you. With all the applications that a typical Linux server uses, coming from various developers from around the world, I didn't have to reboot my Linux root server since 3 months now, and that only because I had installed a new kernel.

 

[Urwumpe]

So are you saying that the entire Win32 development scene is crooked? I'd tend to agree with you. With all the applications that a typical Linux server uses, coming from various developers from around the world, I didn't have to reboot my Linux root server since 3 months now, and that only because I had installed a new kernel.

We have Windows web servers with equal or longer uptimes than many Linux systems around here. It is mostly about how much time the administrator had for learning his skills. For Linux, nobody complains if you need 10000 hours to become an administration expert. For Windows, most people expect you to become expert after 100 hours, because everybody knows Windows.

Sadly, what most people are not aware of - a professional windows server installation is not like their tiny annoying windows they use at home.

 

[Face]

So are you saying that the entire Win32 development scene is crooked? I'd tend to agree with you. With all the applications that a typical Linux server uses, coming from various developers from around the world, I didn't have to reboot my Linux root server since 3 months now, and that only because I had installed a new kernel.

You are for sure not running systemd, now are you? :rofl:

 

[Enjo]

The size (of a memory leak) DOES matter.

 

[Urwumpe]

You must be doing something wrong, or maybe it's your computer. VS isn't very laggy at all for me.

If you install too many optional packages and extensions to VS, it can become pretty slow. But usually, if you install VS for the kind of development you really need, it is as fast as any other good IDE and faster than Eclipse.