Updates Orion (MPCV) Updates and Discussion

Krikkit

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Why do people hate SRMs? What's wrong with SRMs? When last did a total failure occur on a Delta IV or Atlas rocket because of SRMs?

Because once you light them you can't shut them down. And if you catch them going awry the best you can do is try to separate them or unzip them, both options are very dangerous.
 

T.Neo

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Yes, but what is your real alternative? If you can shut down one of the engines on Delta IVH, it wouldn't really help, because you'd then start to fall (or lug around a useless booster core) and you'd have to fire the LES anyway.

I suppose there are some things that you can control more with a liquid engine than you can with a solid motor, but how does reliability add up? Is there any scientific, proven reason not to use solids?
 

orb

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Orion is being prepared for the next round of testing in an acoustic chamber. Each test will expose the Orion MPCV and its launch abort system to acoustic levels exceeding 150 decibels while instruments record the vehicle’s response.
 

T.Neo

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I wonder how many millions this test cost.

I wonder if they have a large US flag that they move around that facility for every single photo op. :p

PS: I don't care about costs. I only care about time.

:facepalm:

Costs hurt people. Time doesn't.

Ok, maybe it does... but not as much.
 

orb

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Aviation Week: Orion MPCV Advances To Acoustic Tests:
{...}

The first of three test sessions progressively simulating the actual spacecraft launch configuration is scheduled to begin Aug. 17.

The acoustic sessions should conclude in late October/early November, a development schedule that keeps the four-person capsule on pace for an initial unpiloted orbital flight test in July 2013, according to Paul Sannes, the Lockheed Martin test and flight article manager.

{...}

The upcoming three-day session will expose the MPCV/LAS combination to a full 150 dB of acoustic force — well exceeding the sound energy a human would experience standing 50 yd. from a jet aircraft — on Aug. 19. Tests on the two previous days will start at 9 dB (Aug. 17) below the threshold and rise to 3 dB below (Aug. 18).

The MPCV/LAS test article is fitted with 600 instruments, 500 accelerometers and 100 microphones laced throughout the structure.

{...}
 

Urwumpe

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Because once you light them you can't shut them down. And if you catch them going awry the best you can do is try to separate them or unzip them, both options are very dangerous.

Yes, but you forget something there:

If you have ignited them, there is very little that can go wrong. Case bursts are a risk, but extremely rare. Far less rare than liquid engine failures.

As far as I can remember, there had been only four SRB failures in history.
 

francisdrake

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Why is there no service module beneath the command module for the test?
I would expect a service module full of tanks and piping be prone to accoustic induced vibrations.

Could it be there is no SM yet available?
 

T.Neo

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Maybe it is because this test is intended to show that progress is occuring, rather than actually be planned as an optimally information gathering test.

Kinda like Ares I-X...

Considering how integral the SM must be to the MPCV, I fail to see why they would plan a SM-less test. Were there any (non boilerplate) tests of the Apollo CSM, without the SM?
 

Codz

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Maybe it is because this test is intended to show that progress is occuring, rather than actually be planned as an optimally information gathering test.

Kinda like Ares I-X...

Why are you so set against the MPCV? You're not even just skeptical, you seem to hate it. What is the enormous flaw that apparently only you and a couple others see? What makes Dragon so much better besides the one test launch?
 

T.Neo

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Why are you so set against the MPCV? You're not even just skeptical, you seem to hate it. What is the enormous flaw that apparently only you and a couple others see? What makes Dragon so much better besides the one test launch?

I don't actually hate MPCV for any technical reason- I'm sure it's a superb vehicle inside, even if it is heavily overkill for LEO missions and maybe has BEO capability modelled from "I Want To Do Apollo Again" idealism.

I hate the bad politics behind the MPCV. Politics are driving NASA right now, and they look like they're driving it into the ground...
 

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Florida Today - The Flame Trench: NASA Aims To Move Orion Test To Cape:
NASA intends to move a flight test of the abort system for the Orion crew exploration vehicle to Cape Canaveral from a missile range in New Mexico, and the agency is targeting March 2014 for the launch.

The test flight is to be staged at Launch Complex 46 at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, according to an agency white paper obtained by FLORIDA TODAY.

The test originally was scheduled to take place at White Sands Missile Range because the Orion spacecraft initially was designed to return to Earth and parachute down to land. But NASA since has changed that plan, and now, the spacecraft will splash down in water.

Senior NASA officials this week decided there would be several advantages to launching the test flight from Cape Canaveral. A water landing could be executed, and the launch site would be located close to Orion assembly, integration and production facilities at Kennedy Space Center.

A converted Peacekeeper missile will be used to launch an Orion crew module equipped with a Launch Abort System, which would use small rocket motors to pull the spacecraft away from a booster rocket during a launch accident.

The test is expected to last 8 minute and 23 seconds. The abort system rockets will be ignited 45 seconds into flight when the crew module is at an altitude of 40,000 feet. The Orion module will reach an altitude of 58,000 feet before parachutes deploy. Splashdown is expected to take place 10 miles off the coast of Cape Canaveral.
 

kuki5050

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I saw movie about cancelled Constellation programme on National Geographic. Maybe i know some things about spaceflights, but when I saw some modifications of spacesuits, rovers and life support system which it won't be used, I thought "WOW! IT'S MORE BETTER THAN SPACE SHUTTLE!" Buliding a permanent base on Moon is not silly idea. that's very good idea. We can explore any corner of the Moon if we believe we can. We can't limit a using of Orion to change ISS crew. 10 years later ISS will be destroyed like Mir and what will be next step? Orion will be destroyed too. Millions of dollars earmarked for the operation will be wasted. We MUST colonize Moon, Mars and planetoids as fast as we can.
 

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kuki5050: The problem is: 99% of the stuff was already designed around 1990. It isn't new. It is just rewarmed again. It is also no step forward.

NASA also had done a pretty detailed study of a reusable winged two stage launch vehicle called AMLS, which would have been a pretty interesting successor of the space shuttle with much more COTS parts included.
 

T.Neo

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Buliding a permanent base on Moon is not silly idea. that's very good idea

Depends on who you ask. There is the "let's go back to the Moon" crowd and there is the "let's go to Mars" crowd. And then there is maybe the group of people in between, who believe in a Moon program as a legitimate advancement of technologies for Mars, or a series of other exploration goals.

The fact is, as interesting as the Moon might be, Mars is a far more interesting, and a far richer, and more dynamic, destination. Mars has been the ultimate goal since before Sputnik- since the time of the first major visionaries of spaceflight. Mars was the inspiration for Goddard and even von Braun, who's original elaborate lunar exploration plans were clearly a lead-up to Mars travel.

I personally dislike intense interest in the Moon, because it is a good way to suck up potential funding for doing anything else- just as the Shuttle, promised to be the platform for further exploration- sucked up any funding for a BEO architecture, and at first even sucked away enough funding to prevent the original space station concept from coming to reality.

In Constellation, which was supposedly a Mars program, there were no concrete plans for Mars. Mars was just a "maybe after 2030". Constellation was just I Want To Do Apollo Again, with the objective of building a lunar base... with no concise definition of what Mars aspects were actually going to be tested on the lunar surface, or what actual Mars technology difficulties were going to be explored. It was the perfect 'oppurtunity' to suck funding away from Mars missions.

The Constellation-era Mars DRM 5.0 (Design Reference Mission) was, as far as I know, not that unlike earlier shuttle-era DRMs... apart from a nearly 300% mass increase, to justify Mike Griffin's gigantic Ares V.

One interesting idea, that I'm not sure has been explored, is a true "Mars simulation" using the Moon- you would launch a mock Mars transfer vehicle out to the Earth-Moon Lagrange 2 point, loiter there for as much time as your Mars transfer would take, then transfer into lunar orbit and land (hopefully with a vehicle with some technology aboard in common with your prospective Mars lander), perform a surface exploration and stay using in-situ facilities (a simple base, mimicking the limitations of your habitation and equipment on Mars) for the amount of time you would stay on Mars, then launch and fly back to EML2, loiter for your simulated return duration, and then perform TEI and recovery back at Earth.

Such a mission could help answer various questions that we need to know about Mars exploration- such as human reaction to the BEO radiation environment and isolation from Earth, and performance in a partial-gravity environment after a relatively long duration exposure to microgravity. And it would be a clear path towards Mars exploration, and not be an aimless money-sink (a lot of the hardware could be similar or the same, such as the EML2 'hab' or mock Mars transfer vehicle).

Of course, the MPCV cannot even go to the surface of the Moon, since no lander for it exists. It cannot go to Mars, because all sorts of other stuff that would be required for a Mars mission, also doesn't exist. It might be able to go to an asteroid with other vehicles that are being studied now, but these vehicles would also cost billions of dollars to develop and construct.

So far, the only sure mission for the MPCV (provided an EDS exists for SLS) is an Apollo 8-like lunar orbit mission. That is really daring exploration, NASA. Really pushing the boundaries there. :dry:
 
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orb

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NASA:
Acoustic Tests Verify Orion’s Sound Engineering

September 02, 2011

Engineers have successfully completed the first of a series of acoustic tests on the Orion Multi-Purpose Crew Vehicle (MPCV) ground test vehicle, which consists of two major components of the Orion spacecraft: the crew module and the launch abort system. Built to spaceflight specifications, the Orion MPCV ground test vehicle is the first full-scale spacecraft built to support the development of the final human space flight vehicle, which is slated for its first orbital flight test in about two years.

Click on image to enlarge​
Technicians position microphones around the Orion MPCV and launch abort system test articles in preparation for the second round of testing in the acoustic chamber at Lockheed Martin’s facilities near Denver. The vehicle was bombarded by acoustic levels of 150 decibels to simulate conditions during launch and abort if necessary.
Photo credit: Lockheed Martin​


More than 600 instruments, 500 accelerometers and 100 microphones were placed throughout the Orion crew module/launch abort system stack to test critical components of the spacecraft such as avionics, propulsion and crew life support. This ground test vehicle will serve as the “workhorse” for environmental testing that provides critical data to define the spacecraft’s capabilities needed for long-duration, deep space missions.

The series of tests being conducted at Lockheed Martin’s Reverberant Acoustic Laboratory near Denver, Colo., expose the spacecraft to acoustic forces as high as 150 decibels -- the sound energy a human would experience standing about 50 yards from a jet aircraft. The sound pressure tests last only a few minutes in length and are completed incrementally to allow the engineers to isolate and understand the behavior of each of the major components of the vehicle.

After the acoustic test series concludes, the spacecraft will remain in the chamber for modal survey testing in which vibrating stingers will be applied to the spacecraft structure to measure responses to simulated launch environments. The acoustic and modal tests will verify the spacecraft can withstand the extreme noise and vibration the vehicle will experience during a launch or an emergency abort.

Following the testing in Denver, the Orion MPCV ground test vehicle will be transported to the NASA Langley Research Center in Hampton, Va., where it will undergo a series of drop tests to analyze system performance during a variety of simulated landing trajectories and sea states.

NASA’s fleet of Orion spacecraft will be manufactured at the Michoud Assembly Facility in New Orleans, La., then sent to the Operations & Checkout Facility at Kennedy Space Center for final assembly and integration prior to launch. The major components of the Orion spacecraft include the crew module, the service module, the spacecraft adapter and the launch abort system.

{...}
 

orb

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NASA:
Sept. 9, 2011​
RELEASE : 11-297
Deep Space Capsule Comes Alive With First Weld; Major Progress Made on Nation's New Space Exploration Plan


NEW ORLEANS -- Construction began this week on the first new NASA spacecraft built to take humans to orbit since space shuttle Endeavour left the factory in 1991, and marked a significant milestone in carrying out the ambitious exploration vision President Obama and Congress have laid out for the nation.

Engineers at NASA's Michoud Assembly Facility in New Orleans started welding together the first space-bound Orion Multi-Purpose Crew Vehicle. "The Orion team has maintained a steady focus on progress, and we now are beginning to build hardware for spaceflight," said Orion Program Manager Mark Geyer, NASA's Johnson Space Center, Houston.

Click on image to enlarge​
This capsule will be used during Orion’s first test flight in space.
Credit: NASA​

"This marks a major milestone in NASA's ambitious plans to send humans farther into space than the nation has ever been before," said NASA spokesman David Weaver, Headquarters, Washington. "We're not only working to send people into deep space, we are putting people to work right here in America."

The first welds were completed Friday using an innovative new friction stir welding process, developed especially for Orion construction. The process creates a seamless, leak-proof bond that has proven stronger and higher in quality than can be achieved with conventional welding.

After welding is completed at Michoud, the Orion spacecraft orbital test article will be shipped to NASA's Kennedy Space Center in Florida, where the heat shield will be installed. At Kennedy, it will undergo final assembly and checkout operations for flight.

A picture of Friday's work is available at:


{...}


Click on image for details​


NASA: First Space-Bound Orion Comes Alive With First Weld

NASASpaceflight: NASA fanfare for Orion progress as welds begins on the OFT-1 vehicle

Parabolic Arc: NASA Begins Work on First Space-Bound Orion Spacecraft
 

Arrowstar

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Anyone have a timeline on the first Orion's construction?
 

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I think the considerations with the Ares spending is that it goes toward "future development" which looks like it could be the new rocket debuted today!
 
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