OFMM Science Goals - Surface: Discussion

[Lord Wasteland]

Alright, so we have the planned out transfer, location to land, et cetera, what kind of science payload are we expecting? Equipment to analyze the soil, radiation detectors, any existing rovers that are still alive on Mars, any orbital satellites (not recently launched) what so ever? By the launch period, we should have MSL, MAVEN (if not canceled), and some other satellites. If somehow Opportunity does survive (and can be recovered), why not bring her home. At only 408lbs/185kg, it wouldn't be that much to bring her home. A slight fuel increase, but after all she will have been important, and probably can fit inside a XR-2 cargo-bay on reentry.

 

[garyw]

Alright, so we have the planned out transfer, location to land, et cetera,

We have? Where has the landing LOCATION be specified anywhere?

If somehow Opportunity does survive (and can be recovered), why not bring her home. At only 408lbs/185kg, it wouldn't be that much to bring her home.

Why would you when a small part of a landed rover would be lighter and provide the exact same science gain? Besides which I would have thought that a dead rover would give more of a science gain than a live one. If it's alive, leave it alone to keep working.

Are there any landers within the specified equatorial region?

 

[mojoey]

I was the one who brought up the rovers, since it would not only be 'cool' but there's a lot we could learn from them. Anyways, a weather balloon would be torn to shreds in a dust storm, and materials strong enough to survive that kind of abuse, are too heavy to be lifted.

 

[garyw]

I was the one who brought up the rovers, since it would not only be 'cool' but there's a lot we could learn from them.

Sure, Is there a dead lander (not necessarily a rover) within the landing path? i.e. the +/- 10 degress of eqautor?

Anyways, a weather balloon would be torn to shreds in a dust storm, and materials strong enough to survive that kind of abuse, are too heavy to be lifted.

Wrong. A dust storm on Mars is nothing in terms of air pressure because the air is so thin. What it's more likely to do is wreck the electronics but then why would you launch such a device when there is a dust storm nearby?

 

[MattBaker]

Sure, Is there a dead lander (not necessarily a rover) within the landing path? i.e. the +/- 10 degress of eqautor?

Opportunity is currently at Endeavour crater, which location is around 2.25°S 354.77°E and Curiosity lands somewhere in Gale crater (5.44°S 137.70°E)

 

[mojoey]

What it's more likely to do is wreck the electronics but then why would you launch such a device when there is a dust storm nearby?

I was thinking more of a long term probe, something farther from the base, I.E. 5-10 KM for weather studies, or whatever you can come up with...maybe even close up terrain mapping, thus it would be a free floating balloon, and be even farther away. Im figuring that weight is supposed to be reduced, and balloons like what im talking about, are heavy. So, you wont be carrying too many of them to replace one thats ripped up in a storm

 

[Cras]

The key science goals has got to be rocks and searching for life. The benefit of sending human beings is the ability to quickly scan the area, get be able to get access to rocks not easily gotten with rovers. The ability to train the crew in geology so they can work with a degree of autonomy to get samples with the best chance of a result, answering the important questions regarding the Martian history. To build on the knowledge we have already amassed from the unmanned rovers. And of course, the first martian sample return.

my 2 cents

 

[RisingFury]

I was the one who brought up the rovers, since it would not only be 'cool' but there's a lot we could learn from them.

The way I understood that sentence was that 'you can learn a lot about how electronics and mechanical parts get worn out by extended stay on another planet', so if you meant it in any other way, ignore the last paragraph.

Landing on a site previously explored by a robotic mission would be quite a waste of resources. Even though the robotic mission has limited capabilities, it has already swept the area and explored it. Returning to that site would mean the amount of science you can do is diminished, by the science already done by the robotic mission.

As for learning how the material copes with long term exposure... you should already know that BEFORE going to Mars. You had to design equipment capable of surviving extended use on Mars, so checking out how a rover or lander coped after you've reached Mars is kind of pointless.

 

[mojoey]

Simply put, it was meant as a souvenir, of little scientific importance. Perhaps, learning from what happened to the rovers. I never thought the idea would get off the ground like it did, but you can learn from a dead piece of junk. Maybe some lifeform hitched a ride. The way I see it, learning from things like the rovers, and various probes, though insignificant, could prove useful down the line.

However, im most likely wrong... and going to retrieve a rover or lander is a waste of time.

 

[PhantomCruiser]

Mmm, I wouldn't think it would be a complete waste of time. All kinds of things could be learned from the rovers long-term exposure to Martian elements, and construction of long-term habitats would benifit from that knowledge.
But, I don't think it'd be a primary mission... But if another science gathering mission put us in the neighborhood of, say Sojoiner, then we could approach, photograph in-situ, recover and preserve it for study. I'd be more difficult than a "bag-ang-tag", but perhaps something that can be accomplished as a secondary objective.
I'm sure the Smithsonian would like to get ahold of it once the lab-coated guys are through.

 

[Chub777]

Well, when we decide our landing site and it's close to a rover/lander, then you could send an astronaut or two for inspections, etc. Not saying that this should now become a contributing factor when choosing the landing sites.

 

[garyw]

Well, when we decide our landing site and it's close to a rover/lander, then you could send an astronaut or two for inspections, etc. Not saying that this should now become a contributing factor when choosing the landing sites.

Certainly an option but I think recovery of PART of a lander and not the whole lander is a secondary objective.

I agree that a search for life is a primary objective and even scouting for a permanent base is a good idea.

 

[Cras]

Could I dare list the objects in order of importance as thus:

1.) Evidence (geological or otherwise) of life
2.) Test of material, procedures, and systems for potential viability of a permanent base
3.) Scout location for said base
4.) Recovery of lander (or could even a repair of a lander be done, to give it a few more months of life for scouting about during the time between this missions departure and the arrival of the next manned mission.)

 

[garyw]

I think thats a good list at least to start with. Repair of a rover is an interesting idea, I like it.

Now, any dissenters or other ideas?

 

[Lord Wasteland]

Maybe Valles Marineris? It is approximately 13 degrees south, but there are reports of evidence of frozen water near it. As the depth of 7.5km, it could possibly have an elevator design built in the side to head to the bottom of the valley for exploration.

 

[Urwumpe]

Maybe Valles Marineris? It is approximately 13 degrees south, but there are reports of evidence of frozen water near it. As the depth of 7.5km, it could possibly have an elevator design built in the side to head to the bottom of the valley for exploration.

Sorry, but maybe you can understand that we want to explore Mars and not build elevators that we don't even yet have on Earth.

 

[ADSWNJ]

Can we model any of this mission after the Red Mars / Green Mars / Blue mars trilogy? I.e. make the first base into Underhill, think about the Space Elevator, think about terraforming?

Or would these be an OFMM 6, 7, 8 ... into the distant future?

 

[mojoey]

This probably doesnt belong here, so feel free to move it...

if we are thinking about leaving a DG with two people and 3 years worth of sammiches, is the DG going to be moving from place to place? I.E. spend a while at one crater, fly over to another, so on and such forth... to conduct scientific stuff, or sit right where we left it, and serve as a temporary base, until a larger crew arrives with more permanent structures?

 

[garyw]

Can we model any of this mission after the Red Mars / Green Mars / Blue mars trilogy? I.e. make the first base into Underhill, think about the Space Elevator, think about terraforming?

Or would these be an OFMM 6, 7, 8 ... into the distant future?

This probably doesnt belong here, so feel free to move it...

if we are thinking about leaving a DG with two people and 3 years worth of sammiches, is the DG going to be moving from place to place? I.E. spend a while at one crater, fly over to another, so on and such forth... to conduct scientific stuff, or sit right where we left it, and serve as a temporary base, until a larger crew arrives with more permanent structures?

No. This is NOT about setting up a colony and terraforming Mars. Look at the missions list. There is no follow on from OFMM (Unless someone else wants to do that) and personally I HATE the idea of leaving people on Mars. When the James cook is offloaded thats it - no more missions, OFMM over and closed. So long and thanks for all the fish.

Finally, Just how would you do terraforming in the confines or a few people wandering around a tiny patch of mars? How would you build a space elevator?

You wouldn't so no. New rule = no more mentions of terraforming or space elevators. Treat this as an apollo style mission to Mars.

---------- Post added at 21:51 ---------- Previous post was at 21:49 ----------

This probably doesnt belong here, so feel free to move it...

if we are thinking about leaving a DG with two people and 3 years worth of sammiches, is the DG going to be moving from place to place? I.E. spend a while at one crater, fly over to another, so on and such forth... to conduct scientific stuff, or sit right where we left it, and serve as a temporary base, until a larger crew arrives with more permanent structures?

Which will be when? There are no missions like that planned unless someone wants to do OFMM-2, OFMM, the continuation? OFMM II- The wraith of UMMU?

 

[ADSWNJ]

You wouldn't so no. New rule = no more mentions of terraforming or space elevators. Treat this as an apollo style mission to Mars.

Got it, boss!!