OFMM Science Goals - Surface: Discussion

MaverickSawyer

Acolyte of the Probe
Joined
Apr 11, 2011
Messages
3,919
Reaction score
1
Points
61
Location
Wichita
OK, Gary gave the go ahead to discuss science objectives for OFMM surface excursions.
My :2cents: : perform research into structural properties of the regolith, and how it could be used as a building material for permanenet habitats with integral radiation shielding. My idea runs along the lines of Underhill from Red Mars, by Kim Stanley Robinson. We can't model that right now, but it's a possible RL objective.
Another science mission: Ground-based Areology, specifically regarding feedstock materials for manufaturing processed materials, such as metal, glass, fuel, etc.

From a planetary protection standpoint, we should land near the equator, since there is little water there to support life as we know it.
 
Last edited:

Napalm42

Drell Admiral, Citadel Fleet
Donator
Joined
Jan 24, 2011
Messages
405
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Miami
Someone mentioned a trip to the rovers I think? Maybe rendevous with one nearby, as to see what time on Mars has done to it, retrieve something from it as a sort of tribute to bring home?

Scientifically, I'd also like to investigate the ability of the soil to possibly support plant life if given water and sun. Get some in-atmosphere readings from inside of a dust storm. Bring a few samples of the soil to investigate for Earth-like minerals.
 

MaverickSawyer

Acolyte of the Probe
Joined
Apr 11, 2011
Messages
3,919
Reaction score
1
Points
61
Location
Wichita
@Napalm42: great idea. I think we should avoid MSL, due to the RTG powerplant. However, Spirit or Opportunity are excellent choices. We could also do an orbital survey to locate Beagle 2, MPL, and other lost landers. That would require a polar orbit, which also opens up the entire planet to landings. However, we have only 2 shots at rendevous with the Cook per day.
The soil experiments are an excellent idea, though we do know that most of the regolith on the surface contains toxic levels of peroxides and salts. Removing the peroxide is easy: just add water! The salt's gonna be tough. We may need to pack halophile plants to try in a greenhouse. Something from Death Valley or the Dead Sea regions would be a starting point.
I like the Dust storm idea from a research perspective. No one has done that on the ground, just orbital observing. Definitely on the suggestion list.

@Chub777: definitely on the schedule, but not much we can do short of making a UCGO weather station that just sits there.
 

PhantomCruiser

Wanderer
Moderator
Tutorial Publisher
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Messages
5,477
Reaction score
9
Points
113
Location
Cleveland
Scientifically, I'd also like to investigate the ability of the soil to possibly support plant life if given water and sun.
Agree. What about some sort of long-term hab module with remote control and monitoring? Simulated of course...

Could some mass be allocated for the return voyage for soil for the same purpose? Say maybe 250 lbs? May be too small an amount, but it's all about the fuel budget.
 

MaverickSawyer

Acolyte of the Probe
Joined
Apr 11, 2011
Messages
3,919
Reaction score
1
Points
61
Location
Wichita
Hell, we brought back less than half a ton of moon rocks on 6 Apollo Missions. We can make 250 lbs easy. The biosecurity requirements are gonna be a bear, though.

---------- Post added at 08:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:49 PM ----------

OK, Arrowstar has been asked about the max return mass. I let him know that the dV budget comes first.
 

PhantomCruiser

Wanderer
Moderator
Tutorial Publisher
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Messages
5,477
Reaction score
9
Points
113
Location
Cleveland
More soil for study would be better of course... More samples for labcoat wearing folks to study and create a recipe for fertilizer to assist in plant growth.

Plus other things as well, like is it a good aggregate for making some sort of in-situ concrete for building mat'ls, clay, etc...
 

Chub777

New member
Joined
Dec 2, 2009
Messages
663
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
LEO
@Chub777: definitely on the schedule, but not much we can do short of making a UCGO weather station that just sits there.

Well that goes for everything, doesn't it? The actual experiments happen all in your mind. :crystalball2:

Getting back on topic, I was also thinking of an airborne device of some sort. Something like a weather balloon.

EDIT: You could either use [ame="http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=5092"]this[/ame] (for a weather balloon) or [ame="http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=2581"]this[/ame] (for a drone).
 
Last edited:

Luke Skywalker

Rebel Alliance Hero
Joined
Dec 26, 2011
Messages
174
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Singapore
Well that goes for everything, doesn't it? The actual experiments happen all in your mind. :crystalball2:

Getting back on topic, I was also thinking of an airborne device of some sort. Something like a weather balloon.
Don't think that's a good idea if there's a Dust storm heading you way, maybe a small probe that hovers above the surface while collecting data.
 

Chub777

New member
Joined
Dec 2, 2009
Messages
663
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
LEO
Don't think that's a good idea if there's a Dust storm heading you way, maybe a small probe that hovers above the surface while collecting data.

True, but how would a probe hover? Just thinking of VTOL rockets, that would add a lot of weight. Also would it be feasible to collect Martian regolith from dust storms (I don't t think so, but I'm just wondering)?
 

Luke Skywalker

Rebel Alliance Hero
Joined
Dec 26, 2011
Messages
174
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Singapore
True, but how would a probe hover? Just thinking of VTOL rockets, that would add a lot of weight. Also would it be feasible to collect Martian regolith from dust storms (I don't t think so, but I'm just wondering)?
Or maybe 2 forms, one that can maybe inflate something so it can float (something that can resist dust storms), and many archanid legs for a walker.

EDIT:

Maybe something like this, only smaller
 
Last edited:

Napalm42

Drell Admiral, Citadel Fleet
Donator
Joined
Jan 24, 2011
Messages
405
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Miami
Off topic:

Without the sound? That noise drove me mad back in Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire :lol:

On topic:

It seems a puncture resistant weather balloon would work best for collection over one area, but the Ares mission would be better for wide area recon.
 

Urwumpe

Not funny anymore
Addon Developer
Donator
Joined
Feb 6, 2008
Messages
35,591
Reaction score
98
Points
138
Location
Langendernbach
I think we should focus on what you need humans for. While rovers can for example do coarse investigations for years and detect interesting sites, humans can gather samples over a wider area on a single day, return them to a lab in their Mars base and analyze them.

It should thus be assumed, that the rover part of science is already done and the Mars base already has a good set of sites to prospect.

Humans can also place seismic sensor nets over a place with higher accuracy and much faster than robots could (assuming the ability of robotics that could be reached in the next 10 years). So, one task could be placing seismic sensors over a few football pitches on a day and on the next day ignite a small explosive charge some kilometers away and gather seismic data of the deep underground of Mars.

Another thing is the assembly of bigger science tools. Humans can assemble rather easily, what you couldn't land in one piece. for example a large drill for going deeper under the Martian soil.

Astronomy could work well by remote control, but the assembly of a Martian observatory would be better done by humans.

Weather stations could be placed by robotic landers, but humans could install more and better weather stations on Mars with less extra mass (aside of being human payload). So, one possible mission might be extending the network of weather stations or replace aging robotic weather stations by new ones. Or swap batteries and wipe the solar arrays.
 

Lord Wasteland

Orbinaut
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
Messages
104
Reaction score
0
Points
0
I think we should go for prior to main-landing, send one or two Ares near planned LZ's, and recon them ahead of time, and then send a rover to each area to investigate it. Or we can do it all manned.
 

garyw

O-F Administrator
Administrator
Addon Developer
Tutorial Publisher
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
10,417
Reaction score
14
Points
113
Location
Kent
Website
blog.gdwnet.com
I think we should go for prior to main-landing, send one or two Ares near planned LZ's, and recon them ahead of time, and then send a rover to each area to investigate it. Or we can do it all manned.
So you want to change the already posted and approved missions? No, not happening.

This discussion is purely about the MANNED landing science ops. Nothing more.
 

Arrowstar

Probenaut
Addon Developer
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
1,786
Reaction score
0
Points
36
Regarding the science orbit, is there a maximum inclination you guys are thinking about? Is 45 degrees sufficient for the science? 60 degrees? I need to know this.
 

Lord Wasteland

Orbinaut
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
Messages
104
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Okay, so for the landers, maybe we can try at a slight increase of weight, add specific science experiments to be included for reentry. Or, we can pack the experiments in the XR2 after release, so when it lands, the experiments are off-loaded and begin experimentation.
 

Luke Skywalker

Rebel Alliance Hero
Joined
Dec 26, 2011
Messages
174
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Singapore
Or you can just use [ame=http://orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=3265]This?[/ame]

You can send out a "probe", then use it to relay information from the probe to gather atmospheric data ?

For vessels with their own dll, there are better ways to implement this, but for SpacecraftN.dll based vessels this provides a way to simulate atmospheric probes without any coding
 

Chub777

New member
Joined
Dec 2, 2009
Messages
663
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
LEO
Or you can just use This?

You can send out a "probe", then use it to relay information from the probe to gather atmospheric data ?
You can use an UMMU instead. But wouldn't the composition, etc of the Martian atmosphere be known beforehand?
 

garyw

O-F Administrator
Administrator
Addon Developer
Tutorial Publisher
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
10,417
Reaction score
14
Points
113
Location
Kent
Website
blog.gdwnet.com
Okay, so for the landers, maybe we can try at a slight increase of weight, add specific science experiments to be included for reentry. Or, we can pack the experiments in the XR2 after release, so when it lands, the experiments are off-loaded and begin experimentation.
Or you can just use This?

You can send out a "probe", then use it to relay information from the probe to gather atmospheric data ?
Check the missions list. There are landers and supplies already planned. The landers will check the sites and act as weather stations and the supplies drop will include experiment packages to be used by the landing humans at a later date.
 
Top