Obama wins

gawinnard

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Just gently pulling the topic back to Obama and McCain :) From an outsider POV, I think that the reason why Obama was chosen over Clinton (even though she conceded) was that American people are looking for a leader who has not come from a 'Power' base, but is more in touch with the Average American and has less spin. Therefore I think Obama would be the next president. Question is, do you want the presidency in the current low dollar and foreign problem that the USA have?
 

Ghostrider

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Right behind you - don't look!
Bush was a cheerleader mccain was not

What's the problem with cheerleaders?
hayden-panettiere_claire-bennet_the-cheerleader1.jpg


Because I don't see any.
 

Urwumpe

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Low dollar: Mostly caused by speculation, not by real economic situation. While the economic situation is pretty bad (with the high finance being badly damaged and the dependency on oil making things worse), it is not as bad as represented in the low dollar.


Foreign problems: Actually, the USA have now less foreign problems - and more domestic. Afghanistan is now a domestic US problem, as much as Iraq. It might look like different countries, but actually, it is the US citizen which has to pay the bills for both.

Iran is a constant, but also in Iran, things slowly move, thanks to a stronger EU becoming a important third way in the middle east. The USA might do well with forcing the EU to take more responsibility, which is what both Obama and McCain plan to do.

Russia is also no foreign problem for the USA. Russia might be a rival in many fields, but they are no longer the enemy. China is more a economic problem, as a foreign politics problem. They are closer to the USA in their politics, as it is good for the USA.

So, the foreign problems both candidates would have to tackle are:
- Remove Iraq from the US budget. Ideally with making a profit to offset the huge costs into this project.
- War against terror. The Bush way of total anti-terror warfare failed. Not only technically, but also morally. Both candidates not only have the chance to do it different - they need to do it. It is time to become the good guys again. The major supporters of international terrorism hide behind long-term US allies. Maybe it is time to evaluate their loyalty.
- The slow death of the UN. The UN was already weak because of the abusive politics of their members, and the latest US politics of ignoring it did not improve the situation. If this symbol should be left to die, it is required to find a replacement of multilateralism.
- Cuba & South America. Things are changing quickly there. More and more countries react with open hostility to US influence. How to deal with this tendency and maybe reverse it? Charm will be needed more than power now.
- Africa: Many important resources are in the hands of hostile kleptocraties. The African Union is even weaker as the UN, so it will be no aid of improving the situation. Without social peace and economic freedom in Africa, these resources will fall into the hands of smugglers, terrorists and (even worse) China.
- Afghanistan. It's only one step away from becoming a new failed state and kleptocraty. The time of using military power for fixing political problems there are gone, now it is time to ensure, the efforts of the last years don't get killed by corruption and smuggling.
- EU: No problem, but pretty US critical. Again, more charm will be needed here. Without a believable USA, the chance that people in Europe will believe in a strong, federalist EU will be near zero.
- Kosovo: A EU problem. The US only have to make sure it stays one and Russia let's it be one.

Did I miss something in my analysis?
 

eveningsky339

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Low dollar: Mostly caused by speculation, not by real economic situation. While the economic situation is pretty bad (with the high finance being badly damaged and the dependency on oil making things worse), it is not as bad as represented in the low dollar.


Foreign problems: Actually, the USA have now less foreign problems - and more domestic. Afghanistan is now a domestic US problem, as much as Iraq. It might look like different countries, but actually, it is the US citizen which has to pay the bills for both.

Iran is a constant, but also in Iran, things slowly move, thanks to a stronger EU becoming a important third way in the middle east. The USA might do well with forcing the EU to take more responsibility, which is what both Obama and McCain plan to do.

Russia is also no foreign problem for the USA. Russia might be a rival in many fields, but they are no longer the enemy. China is more a economic problem, as a foreign politics problem. They are closer to the USA in their politics, as it is good for the USA.

So, the foreign problems both candidates would have to tackle are:
- Remove Iraq from the US budget. Ideally with making a profit to offset the huge costs into this project.
- War against terror. The Bush way of total anti-terror warfare failed. Not only technically, but also morally. Both candidates not only have the chance to do it different - they need to do it. It is time to become the good guys again. The major supporters of international terrorism hide behind long-term US allies. Maybe it is time to evaluate their loyalty.
- The slow death of the UN. The UN was already weak because of the abusive politics of their members, and the latest US politics of ignoring it did not improve the situation. If this symbol should be left to die, it is required to find a replacement of multilateralism.
- Cuba & South America. Things are changing quickly there. More and more countries react with open hostility to US influence. How to deal with this tendency and maybe reverse it? Charm will be needed more than power now.
- Africa: Many important resources are in the hands of hostile kleptocraties. The African Union is even weaker as the UN, so it will be no aid of improving the situation. Without social peace and economic freedom in Africa, these resources will fall into the hands of smugglers, terrorists and (even worse) China.
- Afghanistan. It's only one step away from becoming a new failed state and kleptocraty. The time of using military power for fixing political problems there are gone, now it is time to ensure, the efforts of the last years don't get killed by corruption and smuggling.
- EU: No problem, but pretty US critical. Again, more charm will be needed here. Without a believable USA, the chance that people in Europe will believe in a strong, federalist EU will be near zero.
- Kosovo: A EU problem. The US only have to make sure it stays one and Russia let's it be one.

Did I miss something in my analysis?
I'll write you in on the ballot.

The UN is the boil on the backside of humanity...
 

Urwumpe

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I'll write you in on the ballot.

The UN is the boil on the backside of humanity...

Foreigners are not allowed as presidents. Otherwise, McCain would have had to fight Schwarzenegger.:rofl:
 

teago

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Foreigners are not allowed as presidents. Otherwise, McCain would have had to fight Schwarzenegger.:rofl:

Ironically, the recent ruling by the US supreme court against the suspension of habeus corpus for guantanamo bay detainees, also sets a judicial precedent about the status of military bases as sovereign pieces of US land. John McCain was born on a US military base in Panama--thus this decision effectively rules in favor of him being a natural-born citizen and eligible to become president (and rules against his position as to the prosecution of gitmo prisoners).
 

Urwumpe

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Though I agree it's still ironic.

Well, the USA still have more fear of a British monarchist becoming president and reestablish British rule, than a President who has the middle name "Hussein" (though it is just the equivalent of Benjamin in the Arabian language, when I remember correctly).
 

Urwumpe

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Would a British monarchist not be a British monarchist if born on US land?

Good question. I would say it would be an US monarchist.:rofl:
 

Urwumpe

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heh, Just to throw this into the pot, doesn't the UK monarchy have more of a German bloodline then English?

Yeah, but thank god, not of the house of Hanover. The Hanover influence into the English Monarchy ended with queen Victoria. The current royal family was once known as House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (which was actually, to be more correct, House of Wettin), but decided to name themselves Windsor during the first world war. Maybe they did not like getting bombed by bombers wearing a part of their royal name.

But actually, when you look more closely - all European nobles are more or less of the same bloodline, they have so many marriages among themselves, that it is hard to find somebody not related to the Queen of England.

The highest chance to one day rule the UK as foreigner has Princess Margarita of Romania, from the House of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen - when all 85 others higher in the list suddenly die or decide that playing golf is more fun than being king or queen. The highest ranking German noble in the line is Prince Georg Friedrich of Prussia - at position 150.

Yeah, we just keep our nobility for the sake of attracting tourists and fill magazines with home stories about them.
 

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if arnold swortzanegger (last name not spelled right) could run for president would you guyz vote for him
 

eveningsky339

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Yeah, but thank god, not of the house of Hanover. The Hanover influence into the English Monarchy ended with queen Victoria. The current royal family was once known as House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (which was actually, to be more correct, House of Wettin), but decided to name themselves Windsor during the first world war. Maybe they did not like getting bombed by bombers wearing a part of their royal name.

But actually, when you look more closely - all European nobles are more or less of the same bloodline, they have so many marriages among themselves, that it is hard to find somebody not related to the Queen of England.

The highest chance to one day rule the UK as foreigner has Princess Margarita of Romania, from the House of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen - when all 85 others higher in the list suddenly die or decide that playing golf is more fun than being king or queen. The highest ranking German noble in the line is Prince Georg Friedrich of Prussia - at position 150.

Yeah, we just keep our nobility for the sake of attracting tourists and fill magazines with home stories about them.
I remember one of the King Georges in the 1700s (George the First maybe?) couldn't speak a word of English. He knew plenty of German though.
 

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I remember one of the King Georges in the 1700s (George the First maybe?) couldn't speak a word of English. He knew plenty of German though.

Yeah, George the First, out of the House of Hanover. Became king because all 56 closer related candidates had been catholics and a law prohibited catholics to be come king at that time.

During his reign, the prime ministers of Britain gained power. It is pretty likely that he learned speaking English during his reign, but at the beginning, he most likely did not be able to do it well. But he spoke many other languages than German. He was too German for the British - he preferred to travel incognito to the house of a friend to play cards over sitting in the royal box of the opera.
 

eveningsky339

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He was too German for the British - he preferred to travel incognito to the house of a friend to play cards over sitting in the royal box of the opera.
Sounds like he and I could get along just fine. Of course, I'm certain that I would be more compatible with George III in his later stages of life...
 

Urwumpe

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Sounds like he and I could get along just fine. Of course, I'm certain that I would be more compatible with George III in his later stages of life...

:rofl: I hope we don't get a "How high do you rate on the George Scale" test here. I might end like George IV here.
 
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