Updates NASA Commercial Crew Integrated Capability (CCiCap)

[Urwumpe]

I hope USAF, ESA, and perhaps Japan have enough interest in DreamChaser to keep that project alive. I think if that flew a few full missions and came coasting on in for a few beautiful landings like the shuttle did, I think that would get some attention. A spaceplane does have some advantages. The problems with STS were with the boosters and external tank - the orbiter itself was an engineering wonder. I really see DreamChaser as a STS 2.0, learning from our mistakes.

Dreamchaser would get some trouble here, because it is not-invented-here. Also, we here rather hope for Skylon. :lol:

 

[Thunder Chicken]

Dreamchaser would get some trouble here, because it is not-invented-here. Also, we here rather hope for Skylon. :lol:

Not invented here? Easily dismissable as no one actually cares about history here in the U.S. Just quote some 1960-era studies and it is 'Murika all the way.

Silly Germans.

 

[ISProgram]

When Urwumpe said 'here'. I think he was referring to Europe.

And he has a point. I think France would be especially opposed to DC being used by ESA since it doesn't create jobs. After all, they weren't/aren't too happy with Ariane 6 since they weren't involved too much in manufacturing, despite leading the program.

 

[RonDVouz]

I thought the Ariane rocket was primarily built by Airbus Defense, and I was also under the impression that French contractors got preference in ESA projects.

I also thought this heavy handed French influence caused the Russians to back out of a joint project to build a capsule.

 

[Urwumpe]

When Urwumpe said 'here'. I think he was referring to Europe.

And he has a point. I think France would be especially opposed to DC being used by ESA since it doesn't create jobs. After all, they weren't/aren't too happy with Ariane 6 since they weren't involved too much in manufacturing, despite leading the program.

Other way around. Germany dislikes the Ariane 6 concepts, because it is actually more a silent subsidy for the French nuclear missile program. Similar reasons why Germany abstained from VEGA for a while. Germany prefers an upgraded Ariane 5 because it has more interesting opportunities for German industry.

Even if Airbus Space & Defense is a "european" company, the factories are still in different countries and politics are pretty nasty inside Airbus at times.

(Insanity? This Is EURRROOOOOOOOPE)

 

[RonDVouz]

Thank you for that clarification. That is really interesting, and absolutely frightening at the same time.

I don't blame Germany.

 

[perseus]

NASA awards space taxi contract to Boeing and SpaceX

NASA has awarded the highly-anticipated space taxi contract to Boeing and SpaceX, a move which will end the agency’s reliance on Russian technology to transport U.S. astronauts to the International Space Station.
The Commercial Crew Transportation Capability contract aims to restore an American capability to launch astronauts from U.S. soil to the International Space Station by the end of 2017. Since the end of the Space Shuttle program in 2011, American astronauts have been transported to space on Russian-built Soyuz vessels.

 

[boogabooga]

http://www.orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?t=26383

Did you really think no one here noticed already?

 

[Unstung]

Yay, I got to use my fabulous secret powers. Merged.

The redirect expires in a week.

 

[perseus]

http://www.orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?t=26383

Did you really think no one here noticed already?

yes, logically, but I wanted to "protest", by abandoning the most beautiful bride and advanced NASA, Dream Chaser
lease:

 

[ISProgram]

SNC: "Sierra Nevada Corporation Challenges Award of NASA’s Commercial Crew Transportation Capability Contract"

The Dream is NOT giving up. Even though they already cut some staff. SNC has filed a GAO protest.

 

[ISProgram]

NASA Exercises Authority to Proceed with Commercial Crew Contracts

NASA has temporarily overridden the GAO protest. Didn't know they could do this...

On Sept. 16, NASA announced U.S. astronauts once again will travel to and from the International Space Station (ISS) from the United States on American spacecraft under groundbreaking contracts. The agency unveiled its selection of Boeing and SpaceX to transport U.S. crews to and from the space station using their CST-100 and Crew Dragon spacecraft, respectively, with a goal of ending the nation’s sole reliance on Russia in 2017.

On Sept. 26, Sierra Nevada Corporation filed a protest of the commercial crew contracts with the U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO). Pursuant to the GAO protest, NASA instructed Boeing and SpaceX to suspend performance of the contracts.

On Oct. 9, under statutory authority available to it, NASA has decided to proceed with the Commercial Crew Transportation Capability (CCtCap) contracts awarded to The Boeing Company and Space Exploration Technologies Corp. notwithstanding the bid protest filed at the U.S. Government Accountability Office by Sierra Nevada Corporation. The agency recognizes that failure to provide the CCtCap transportation service as soon as possible poses risks to the International Space Station (ISS) crew, jeopardizes continued operation of the ISS, would delay meeting critical crew size requirements, and may result in the U.S. failing to perform the commitments it made in its international agreements. These considerations compelled NASA to use its statutory authority to avoid significant adverse consequences where contract performance remained suspended. NASA has determined that it best serves the United States to continue performance of the CCtCap contracts that will enable safe and reliable travel to and from the ISS from the United States on American spacecraft and end the nation’s sole reliance on Russia for such transportation.

 

[RonDVouz]

If we want to fly ANYTHING by 2017 then they had to do this. All SNC's complaint would do is prevent anyone from proceeding and continue our reliance on Russian launches indefinitely. For the good of getting this show on the road already they ought to withdraw their complaint.

 

[MattBaker]

For the good of getting this show on the road already they ought to withdraw their complaint.

I disagree. If there's a possibility to complain and a possibility to gain something out of it, why not use it? Sure it shouldn't hinder the other companies in the time it takes to review everything. But being able to appeal a decision should always be possible.

 

[RonDVouz]

I disagree. If there's a possibility to complain and a possibility to gain something out of it, why not use it? Sure it shouldn't hinder the other companies in the time it takes to review everything. But being able to appeal a decision should always be possible.

There is a possibility to complain, but when it costs the entire program to do so then this is nothing more that crying foul when there wasn't a foul committed.

The way I see it is SNC fell way behind in this race and is screaming no fair because NASA recognized the fact they weren't at the level the other entries were at.

We have a schedule, manned launches in 2017. If we don't proceed we'll be asking the Russians for ride until the Orion is ready to fly. That's unacceptable.

 

[orbitingpluto]

There is a possibility to complain, but when it costs the entire program to do so then this is nothing more that crying foul when there wasn't a foul committed.

The way I see it is SNC fell way behind in this race and is screaming no fair because NASA recognized the fact they weren't at the level the other entries were at.

We have a schedule, manned launches in 2017. If we don't proceed we'll be asking the Russians for ride until the Orion is ready to fly. That's unacceptable.

So you already know SNC's complaint is baseless, and they are in fact inferior to the other entrants?:blink:


anyway, whatever the basis for SNC's protest, it's not like the schedule is set in stone for Commercial Crew- the original one had first flights in 2014. Since Congress has been loath to actually meet the recommended funding levels for Commercial Crew, and the performance of the vehicles isn't negotiable(it either works as a crew taxi or it doesn't), schedule is the only variable managers have to play with. Either they extend the schedule to meet the budget and performance requirements they have to work in, or Commercial Crew becomes a untenable program. Untenable programs get cancelled, especially ones that Congress wasn't supportive of in the first place.

A launch in 2018 would be better than no Commercial Crew at all.

 

[Unstung]

This is how I feel about Boeing ever since they won the contract:

REMOVE SEATTLE remove seattle
you are worst boeing. you are the boeing idiot you are the boeing smell. return to 1960s. to our 1960s cousins you may come our contry. you may live in the zoo….ahahahaha ,nasa we will never forgeve you. sierra nevada greattst contract

 

[RonDVouz]

So you already know SNC's complaint is baseless, and they are in fact inferior to the other entrants?:blink:


anyway, whatever the basis for SNC's protest, it's not like the schedule is set in stone for Commercial Crew- the original one had first flights in 2014. Since Congress has been loath to actually meet the recommended funding levels for Commercial Crew, and the performance of the vehicles isn't negotiable(it either works as a crew taxi or it doesn't), schedule is the only variable managers have to play with. Either they extend the schedule to meet the budget and performance requirements they have to work in, or Commercial Crew becomes a untenable program. Untenable programs get cancelled, especially ones that Congress wasn't supportive of in the first place.

A launch in 2018 would be better than no Commercial Crew at all.

How I feel about this function over form, we really need to move on with this love affair with winged spacecraft. That said, I do not think SNC was ready at the appropriate times. The approach and landing test is evidence of that, and before people claim it was "borrowed landing gear" why was it they had to borrow parts to run the test? I say because in a rush to catch up they got the result that rushing gets you.

Boeing, who everyone is down on for various reasons, presented their concept for design review on time and believe it or not on budget and delivered their sim trainer to Houston when asked. They played more by the rules than any of the other entries. Perhaps from experience with red tape but by the book nonetheless.

SpaceX was a lock mostly in part to the automated transfers, but I'm not particularly crazy about the sports car look to Dragon 2.

In the interests of proceeding with the sincere hope we get launching by the 2017 date the complaint should be dismissed. SNC can sell their vehicle to the next guy, which seems probable, but for this purpose I feel the right decisions were made.

 

[ISProgram]

The Denver Post: "Sierra Nevada seeks federal injunction to stop work on NASA space taxi"

*sigh*

 

[RonDVouz]

Are they crying sour grapes or rotten ones?