Project Multistage2015 - Development Thread

[Marg]

Thanks.

Orbiter Beta version of Multistage2015 has not been released yet, are you using the pre-release that I posted here sometimes ago? I posted this issue also to Martin. The issue happens when ground is not levelled. There is something relevant to the new touchdown points that still doesn't work perfectly in my opinion. In the version that I'm working on this is mostly solved. But anyway there is the need of a levelled ground.

Oops, I must admit I'm using pre-release version, you posted. I just moved LPAD definition in Canaveral.cfg to new coordinates under LC40, so it's quite OK.

 

[Cizurator]

Oops, I must admit I'm using pre-release version, you posted. I just moved LPAD definition in Canaveral.cfg to new coordinates under LC40, so it's quite OK.
But I began to experiment to create Delta IV Heavy with multistage 2015,
I stacked in .ini file parameters pretty well, I noticed one thing - boosters do not appear in Orbiter, although path to meshes is defined correctly, no matter what I do, boosters are not rendered... everything else - first stage, interstage, payload - they are, but not boosters.

I encountered this problem too. I think the small update had solved it.

 

[Marg]

I solved problem, boosters are OK! I just read the manual and it became clear to me. It was my fault. I hope Fred18 did not read my post... :uhh:

 

[Marg]

Some silence here... I just remembered about pad deflection smokes (smoke clouds appearing on pad during launch). Could it be possibility to make an entry in ".ini" file like those existing ones for vent, mach effects?

---------- Post added 12-05-15 at 09:56 PM ---------- Previous post was 12-04-15 at 10:23 PM ----------

I feel alone here... but I wanted to inform that I noticed that parameter CoG in ini file affects how much rocket is leaning after launch. I made parameter COG=4 meters - obvious leaning, but... when I put COG=35, then leaning was minimal.
Problem, that COG defines rocket's position, so it is quite high above launch pad, when COG is 35...
Maybe that helps.

 

[fred18]

I'll get back soon, i've been out for business for a while, will resume development next week. I'll study this and get back to you soon enough!

 

[Michael_Chr]

Congrats...Fred on MS2015

Hi Fred.
Been busy for a while so havn't had the time to give MS2015 the time and devotion it deserves. But have been tinkering with it for a couple of days now so I feel that I'm on well founded ground to really appreciate and understand what a giant leap forward this addon present. If it wasnt because I would bore everyone to death I would present here a list of the problems is has solved and the added possibilities this give over both the original MS ans well as Velcro. I previously used Velcro because it had a functional "edge" in some critical aspects over MS"Classic" however at the expense of inferior graphics presentation (at least to some extent). There are a couple of things on my wishlist - but we will save that for a later time. So...a truly "WELL DONE" from this end....:thumbup: and :tiphat: and finally
I will undoubtedly be back with questions soon :lol:

 

[fred18]

MS 2015 for Orbiter Beta - test release

http://www.intech-srl.eu/fred/MS2015_4BETA.zip

Ok gents,

work is slowing down a bit due to real life so before loosing too much time here's a test release of multistage 2015 only for orbiter beta.

The main difference with the already released version for 2010P1 is the Developer Mode, together with a number of bug fixes.

I still didn't have time to update the documentation but the Developer Mode is quite intuitive, just press CTRL+SPACE to open it

The things you need to know to use the developer mode:
- each section has a "save" button. The button store the parameters and save them to the ini file. If you do not press the save button and you change section you'll lose your changes in the current section, but if you press the save button they will be written in the ini file (this will maybe changed in the future)
- the engines number of the stages allowed in the dialog are maximum 5, but in the ini they still can be 32.
- the "update" button will update the vehicle, but due to the issues with touchdown points and vehicle not returning to IDLE status you may see it drifting around when you update it
- the test of the particle streams definition will show a particle in the middle of nowhere, but it is correct that way, it is only to see the effect of the particle stream (no growing effect is simulated while on ground)

Known issues:
- if you close the dialog you won't be able to open it again without quitting and reopening orbiter. I'll fix it somehow before official release
- Tab key is not working inside dialogs, but it seems to be an Orbiter problem, not related to this program


There are probably bugs around because I did not have time to review it completely.

Awaiting bug reports and your comments!

Cheers

Fred

 

[boogabooga]

I would love to beta test this, but I do not use Orbiter 2015. Sorry

 

[fred18]

I would love to beta test this, but I do not use Orbiter 2015. Sorry

I strongly suggest you to, it's like discovering the beauty of orbiter again.

Anyway I'll update also the 2010 version with the developer mode in the next days :thumbup:

 

[Marg]

I can only add that I almost do not use Orbiter 2010.
There is a huge leap in graphic realism (+ d3d9.dll). Water shaders, atmosphere effects, terrain... if you land in (Orion) capsule during daylight, you really see water - how far below it is, instead of boring blue surface. And - deflection smokes are not rendered below the ground (!) - small, but very important aspect.
And US space program has (had) to deal a lot with water.
Also interface with icons in upper part of screen is very enjoyable.
I managed to construct some Titan vehicles from Velcro and CVELTitan parts.
I think I found some good way to depict solid rocket booster exhausts.
Never before I was satisfied with the look of them. But this time I managed to create pretty good view. Especially with some 25 sec particle life time, huge pillar of smoke is impressive. 10 years ago PC maybe would suffer (FPS), but not these days.

 

[boogabooga]

I strongly suggest you to, it's like discovering the beauty of orbiter again.

Unfortunately, my current "technology solution" precludes this.

All the extra graphics goodies are precisely why I don't use it.

 

[fred18]

Unfortunately, my current "technology solution" precludes this.

All the extra graphics goodies are precisely why I don't use it.

I guessed that. Just to confirm what Marg said, I have to say that D3D9 makes a huge work with the Beta. My experience is that the performance improvement with d3d9 is much more remarkable in the beta than in 2010P1. Anyway as said, no worries, ms2015 with developer mode for 2010P1 will come soon: I just have to copy and past the code files from one project to the other and add some sections around. 1 day of work, probably during the weekend or on monday!

 

[Michael_Chr]

Hi Fred. A minor thing...
Concerning LES statement in the ini file. It seems that when a MS2015 vessel is restarted from a saved state from which this vessel already had jettisoned the LES...the LES reappears. This applies to the 2010P1 version on OH with the recent update (as opposed to the new beta version you posted the other day as I have not tested this).
It seems that there is no "LES" flag in a saved scenario.

 

[fred18]

thanks michael, this is probably a bug caused that my forgetting of rechecking the les status on reload. I'll check and fix that soon!

Thank you very much for your report!

 

[fred18]

so, as promised I added the Developer Mode Dialog also to the 2010P1 version of Multistage2015.

To download and test it click on the following link. Use the post above for reference and let me know your thoughts

http://www.intech-srl.eu/fred/MS2015_DMD_Test.zip

 

[boogabooga]

Annulla = cancel?

 

[fred18]

Annulla = cancel?

Yep sorry, forgot to translate! :lol:

 

[boogabooga]

I know you worked very hard on this, but I would rather go back to just editing the config directly:

1) The interface is huge (40-50% of the screen), and the window can't be shrunk or minimized. This really defeats the whole purpose for me. If I can't see my changes, what is the point?

2) Everytime I update the vessel, it gets flung off at hypersonic velocity.

 

[Michael_Chr]

MS2015 developer

As opposed to Booga I overall really enjoy the developer mode. Agreed...I have two large screens which helps a lot on the desktop real estate :lol:. So All in all...IMHO I think the developer mode is worth pursuing. I think it can get more people onboard making their own rockets. Having said that this developer mode is still a bit rough on the edges but the fact that you have most of the info on the screen as you build instead of having to consult the MS2015 and "MS_Classic" manuals all the time for correct syntax is a big advance for me.

The way I tested this was to build a MS2015 version of BrianJs FalconHeavy with Francis Drakes OrionMPCV as payload - from scratch to to speak. I'm in the process right now...not finished yet...but slowly getting there. But using the developer mode as much as possible as I go along.

The first challenge is that you have to start with something so I started using the SLS.ini provided in the MS2015 base package. This leads to the first "finding"...could there be a way to start a MS2015 project from a base definition or clean sheet because starting from the SLS can be a bit confusing for some I believe.

The other things I have found up until now I will do in bullet form:

1. When deleting a payload section there is no way to update/save this to the inifile - hence you are stuck in a "loop" where you can update the vessel but if you exit orbiter and restart the old paylod defs. are staring right back at you. The only way is to manually delete the sections.
   
2. The booster mesh definition needs some thinking I think. I dropped right into the trap of pointing to a a mesh file and it didn't work. After a while I felt this :facepalm: because the mesh file I selected didnt comply with the required the _1 and _2 for booster mesh files (along with the N=X definition). Some fiddling with BrianJs mesh files and I was back in the game but the caveat is that you have to put in the mesh file entry in the textbox AS IT IS in the ini file. So if a user “picks” a mesh file you have to delete the _N extenstion in the mesh filename. I would recommend some kind of functionality or explanation to overcome this – else it might lead to confusion.
   
3. Also on meshfile defntion - I had an error when selecting a mesh file that I had previously selected saying that this file was locked. Maybe one of the routines keep mesh files “locked” to the system after selection – only a orbiter restart could remedy this. EDIT> Further investigation showed that mesh files are indeed locked after selection. e.g. mesh files cannot be opened in mesh wizard after selection while orbiter is running.
4. Stage definition > Controls. You can enable linear thrust ?... I really like this…but is linear thrust possible on a MS vessel?
5. Stage def. >particles packed to engine(a very imported feature BTW!!!). The –(minus) syntax where you use the center of engine array. Could that be included somehow in the dialogue?)
6. Booster & Stage def. No of engines – is limited to 4/5. I needed 9 for the FalconHeavy. I’m just saying it :lol: - no biggie since you always can modify the ini file afterwards. But how about a subwindow where you can add the definitions in a “slider”window.
7. When you add a new booster def. the dialogue places the booster def. at the bottom of the .ini file. Maybe MS2015 can parse it anyway – so in that case its not an issue.
8. In the Interstage dialogue the pick buttons doesn’t work.
9. Booster Engine curve dialogue…very nice…Almost an easteregg with the graphics there:thumbup:
10. After updating the vehicle the vessel gets into a weird state with lots of added velocity and rotation in all axes (as reported by booga) – the workaround is to have scenedit > location dialogue open and resetting the position right after. But if it can be fixed it would be nice. Maybe you can include a call at the end of the update vehicle routine that will always reset the MS2015 vehicle to say…cape C pad 1?
11. There if an issue with fairing if you select N=3. Only 2 of the 3 fairings are displayed. Saves to ini and displays after Orbiter restart correctly
12. Something strange is going on in the adapter section. The dialogue is not updated with the selected meshfile and the Off values seem not to coincide with the ini values - nor does it update the value correctly.
13. Booster section. Speed and rotspeed are not displayed/updated correctly.
14. The hide/½hide fairing without reload - brilliant
15. Finally – Orbiter always crashes at exit after developer mode has been activated. This is not a big issue and maybe it cant be averted – a lot of other advanced addons can (and will) do the same.

And final-final…a feature request…Is it possible to add a moving cam functionality to the developer mode??? This would be the real winner :tiphat:

I will continue working with the FalconH development and report back. Also…I think I got a good handle on testing the developer mode now…I can very quickly redo the building of the FalconH – I guess some regression testing will be required someway down the line.

So a long post her in this already busy thread ....but in conclusion…a very welcome addition to the wast improvement that MS2015 already is.
Best regards
Michael

 

[fred18]

Thank you very much for the feedbacks!

@boogabooga: I think that the dimension of the window is strictly dependent on the screen resolution, I have a 1920x1080 screen so I see it reasonably. I can split this into two: one key will reset from the ini directly, other key opens the dialog for the developer mode, so everyone will be happy with that.

@both: I'll check why the reset sends the rocket into space instantly, it's probably because I copied the routine from the beta version, which deals differently with ground and touchdown

@Michael_Chr: Thanks for the detailed report, it is extremely useful! Here are my replies:

1) you're right, I'll correct this. payload section was the very first I implemented and the "clean ini" routine was a later idea, I'll apply that also to this section
2) you are totally right, I forgot to mention it in the brief explanation, I'm very sorry! It's an issue I don't know how to fix honestly. The "pick" window is extremely useful, but in this case the mesh you can pick will have a different name. I can try to play with the "_" character and see if I can delete from the filename picked that part also... I'll try!
3) I have this issue too, but I don't know how to solve it yet, I'll have to dig inside the windows programming codes to find something, not sure if I'll be able to solve it. I think that it is not a show stopper anyway.
4) that was discussed here, it was an explicit request from users. by default is not active anyway
5) for the time being it is enough to write the minus inside the cell, I didn't add a specific control because I was afraid to make it too confusing. If you think that it will be more clear instead I'll add it
6) yep I know, I didn't add another window because it is really annoying to create each textbox, activate them, fill them etc. I'll take some time to add it anyway
7) I know, if I'll change the "save" philosophy I'll solve this, I'm still thinking about it
8) oh, I'll fix that, didn't notice!
9) Thanks!
10) My idea is to create an empty default vessel inside an hangar as a Developer Scenario, that will feel a bit like ksp
11) I'll check
12) mmm I remember to have done this very late at night, I'll go through it!
13) I'll check
14) thanks!
15) that didn't happen to me, I'll recheck again anyway because it is a symptom of something not good!

well a moving camera would be very good, I never thought about it. I'll see if it is possible without complicating this too much.

Thank you VERY much for your report, which is extremely useful!!! :tiphat:

cheers guys!

will keep you updated with the fixes!

Fred