Launch News Luna 25 - Thursday, Aug. 10, 23:10 UTC

[TheShuttleExperience]

Think electric.

In the shadow of the polar region?

 

[GLS]

The rockets will blow dust at enough speed to get it into orbit (and also escape), and some of it returns after a lap around the Moon.

 

[Urwumpe]

In the shadow of the polar region?

Why not?

Triboelectric effect - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[TheShuttleExperience]

The rockets will blow dust at enough speed to get it into orbit (and also escape), and some of it returns after a lap around the Moon.

Might not be a an unlikely scenario. But it doesn't seem very likely that dust is propelled just slightly above the very uneven surface into an orbit to just return unhindered at the same place after going around.

 

[Boxx]

Putting the pieces back together, it does seem that it was an overburn.
The burn was at 11:10 UTC, and LOS at 11:57 UTC, so 47 minutes from burn to surface. Firing up Orbiter and burning from 100x100 to 100x18, then burning again for half of the time of the first burn , the vessel hits the surface 46 minutes later, so IMO that scenario seems very plausable. The crash site was about 135º away from the burn, so it ended up a bit north of latitude 45º south.
(I didn't try to simulate the original orbit, so Orbiter can narrow down the crash site even further)

That's very interesting!! Maybe also with orbiter it could be "simple" to assess the impact velocity and tell whether some debris could be visible from Moon orbit by another orbiter (beyond some velocity I guess only a crater could be visible....). Naive thoughts?

 

[GLS]

That's very interesting!! Maybe also with orbiter it could be "simple" to assess the impact velocity and tell whether some debris could be visible from Moon orbit by another orbiter (beyond some velocity I guess only a crater could be visible....). Naive thoughts?

I guess at least the ejecta from the oblique impact would be visible.
I think some numbers about the orbit were made public, so by making the burn 180º + x from the landing site (x = angular distance between landing site and perilune, where the landing burn would start... no idea what that would be), one could narrow down the crash site. Not sure how correct the overall shape of the Moon is in Orbiter... that could mean the difference between hitting the top of a mountain or missing it and crashing a bit further downrange.

 

[GLS]

According to one rumor surfaced on August 20, the Onboard Flight Control System, BKU of the lander mishandled the so-called variable thrust controller (privod regulyatora tyagi), which manages the operation of the propulsion system on Luna-Glob. Around the same time, the official Russian media quoted IKI scientist Natan Eismont as saying that the problems with the spacecraft had been discovered well before the fatal orbit-lowering maneuver, which would have to be postponed to deal with the problem. According to some speculations on the Russian social media, the mission managers were pressured not to postpone the transfer to a lower orbit in order to beat an Indian lander to the lunar surface, which was scheduled to touch down near the South Pole of the Moon on Aug. 23, 2023.

https://www.russianspaceweb.com/luna-glob-flight.html

#priorities

 

[Thunder Chicken]

According to one rumor surfaced on August 20, the Onboard Flight Control System, BKU of the lander mishandled the so-called variable thrust controller (privod regulyatora tyagi), which manages the operation of the propulsion system on Luna-Glob. Around the same time, the official Russian media quoted IKI scientist Natan Eismont as saying that the problems with the spacecraft had been discovered well before the fatal orbit-lowering maneuver, which would have to be postponed to deal with the problem. According to some speculations on the Russian social media, the mission managers were pressured not to postpone the transfer to a lower orbit in order to beat an Indian lander to the lunar surface, which was scheduled to touch down near the South Pole of the Moon on Aug. 23, 2023.

https://www.russianspaceweb.com/luna-glob-flight.html

#priorities

This sounds like politically motivated leadership that thinks that they can over-rule the laws of physics by shouting louder. There's no way this could happen in Russia!

 

[MaxBuzz]

This sounds like politically motivated leadership that thinks that they can over-rule the laws of physics by shouting louder. There's no way this could happen in Russia!

yes, we decided to take a more difficult path, unlike NASA, and bring something new to science

no one really bet that everything will work out

 

[GLS]

yes, we decided to take a more difficult path, unlike NASA, and bring something new to science

Changing an orbit is "a more difficult path"?

 

[Urwumpe]

yes, we decided to take a more difficult path, unlike NASA, and bring something new to science

no one really bet that everything will work out

Crashing things into the lunar surface isn't yet a new idea, even for the soviet union.

 

[jedidia]

Crashing things into the lunar surface isn't yet a new idea, even for the soviet union.

In fact, they were the first!

 

[Urwumpe]

Changing an orbit is "a more difficult path"?

I think the new and untried path is: Replacing Ukrainian components and expertise in Post-Soviet spaceflight by Russian components.

 

[MaxBuzz]

I think the new and untried path is: Replacing Ukrainian components and expertise in Post-Soviet spaceflight by Russian components.

the new rocket worked 10 out of 5
hard landing due to transponders or rather their absence

 

[Thunder Chicken]

yes, we decided to take a more difficult path, unlike NASA, and bring something new to science

 

[Gargantua2024]

The Moon and its recent kill streak so far lol

 

[Urwumpe]

the new rocket worked 10 out of 5
hard landing due to transponders or rather their absence

It wasn't even in any kind of landing configuration at that point. The guidance system simply failed to deliver the correct impulse for entering the pre-landing orbit to initiate powered descent.

 

[Max-Q]

yes, we decided to take a more difficult path, unlike NASA, and bring something new to science

I'm sorry, this is total BS.
How is putting a little unmanned probe (something several nations have done) harder than sending humans back to the moon, to stay this time?
And may I remind you, Artemis 1, even though it was not supposed to land, completed it's design mission perfectly.

 

[Urwumpe]

completed it's design mission perfectly.

With a very long anomaly list, because NASA takes quality assurance serious.

The Orion spacecraft records 13 "anomalies" during its trip to the Moon - Time News

Entre los fallos registrados, el más grave es el de los sensores de navegación, si bien el equipo ya ha conseguido encontrar el origen del error

time.news

 

[GLS]

Back on topic:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1693638624678412639