Low FPS, Vista boost doesnt help

[Gorkyporky]

I reeinstaled orbiter after about a year. In the mean time i got a new computer and windows vista. I instaled orbiter, thinking it would run much better than on my previous computer. But to my misfortune, it doesnt. First i thought that its because of shuttle fleet, but after installing all the recomended addons, i see that is not the case. When launcking shuttle fleet i get 6-7FPS, BondVaga station yealds 10-12FPS, To the moon in 24h the same, any ariane 4 scenario only about 20, and XR-5 max. 21FPS. My previous computer was actualy running some of these things faster than this one at same settings. I am using the Jonesoft generic mod enabler for most of my addons, so could that be the cause?

Current specs:
NVidia 8800GT 521MB
Intel Core2Duo 2,66GHz
4GB ram

Previous computer specs:
AMD Athlon 1,7
Nvidia GeForce 4MX 64MB
265MB ram

So you can see why im stumped at this preformance drop. Any help would be much apreciated.

 

[Woo482]

well run it in compatibility mode for windows xp service pack 2 thats what I use

 

[Urwumpe]

Did you check already if your video settings are correct. Don't forget using always enumerate devices. Also don't use RGB emulation except for debugging.

 

[Gorkyporky]

its set on Direct3D HAL, and i have always enumerate devices on.

 

[computerex]

Well VistaBoost only improves frames by turning off ClearType smoothing, so if you have it turned off, it won't really help. Speaking of VistaBoost, Doug, is it compatible with Windows XP? I know it works and it's great because you don't have to turn off ClearType everytime you run Orbiter, but if Orbiter crashes ClearType gets turned off, and you have to turn it on manually. Is there any way around it? Does this turn off ClearType just for Orbiter, or the entire system?

 

[darian]

its set on Direct3D HAL, and i have always enumerate devices on.

It should have your video card listed in the box, does it ?

 

[dbeachy1]

Well VistaBoost only improves frames by turning off ClearType smoothing, so if you have it turned off, it won't really help.

That is true; however, ClearType is enabled by default on Vista, so it will be enabled unless the user explicitly disabled it -- given Gorky's the system specs, I would expect to see a difference when VistaBoost is loaded. Gorky, what video resolution are you running with Orbiter? Those are good computer specs, and even without VistaBoost you should be getting at least 30 fps with the Vanguard. Can you please post the contents of your Orbiter.log file? Also, what framerate are you getting with the default DeltaGlider in Orbit using a clean Orbiter installation? Please test it both with and without VistaBoost enabled and report your framerate. That will give us something by which to gauge your system's performance.

Speaking of VistaBoost, Doug, is it compatible with Windows XP?

VistaBoost should be compatible with XP, although I have not tested it under XP. In addition, ClearType is disabled by default under XP, so unless the user explicitly enabled it he won't see a difference with VistaBoost.

I know it works and it's great because you don't have to turn off ClearType everytime you run Orbiter, but if Orbiter crashes ClearType gets turned off, and you have to turn it on manually. Is there any way around it? Does this turn off ClearType just for Orbiter, or the entire system?

ClearType font smoothing is a system-wide property, and so there is no way to turn it on or off just for a single process. Therefore, if Orbiter crashes you will have to reset it manually as you are seeing. That's why I don't run with VistaBoost enabled while doing Orbiter development.

 

[Gorkyporky]

Here you go, i have specefied the resolution and color depth next to each test result.

XR-5 on orbit without Vista boost: 21FPS (1280x1024x32)
Log:
**** Orbiter.log
Build Sep 29 2006 [v.060929]
Devices enumerated: 6
Devices accepted: 5
==> RGB Emulation
==> Direct3D HAL
==> Direct3D T&L HAL
==> Direct3D HAL (NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT )
==> Direct3D T&L HAL (NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT )
Found 1 joystick(s)
Module AtlantisConfig.dll [API v.060425]
Module DGConfig.dll [API v.060425]
Module EnergyConfigurator.dll [API v.060425]
Module AeroBrakeMFD.dll [API v.060425]
Module AutoFCS.dll [API v.050206]
Module AutoHoverMFD.dll [API v.060425]
Module AutoSave.dll [API v.060425]
Module CRT.dll [API v.060425]
Module CustomMFD.dll [API v.060425]
Module ExtMFD.dll [API v.060425]
Module FlightData.dll [API v.050206]
Module FlyByMFD.dll [API v.060425]
Module Framerate.dll [API v.050206]
Module GPCMFD.dll [API v.060425]
Module LandMFD.dll [API v.050206]
Module InterMFD51.dll [API v.060425]
Module Meshdebug.dll [API v.060425]
Module OrbiterSound.dll [API v.060425]
Module Rcontrol.dll [API v.050206]
Module ScnEditor.dll [API v.060425]
Module FlyByWire.dll [API v.060425]
Module LaunchMFD.dll [API v.060425]
Module OrreryMFD.dll [API v.060425]


XR-5 on orbit with Vista boost: 24-25FPS (1280x1024x32)
Log:
**** Orbiter.log
Build Sep 29 2006 [v.060929]
Devices enumerated: 6
Devices accepted: 5
==> RGB Emulation
==> Direct3D HAL
==> Direct3D T&L HAL
==> Direct3D HAL (NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT )
==> Direct3D T&L HAL (NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT )
Found 1 joystick(s)
Module AtlantisConfig.dll [API v.060425]
Module DGConfig.dll [API v.060425]
Module EnergyConfigurator.dll [API v.060425]
Module AeroBrakeMFD.dll [API v.060425]
Module AutoFCS.dll [API v.050206]
Module AutoHoverMFD.dll [API v.060425]
Module AutoSave.dll [API v.060425]
Module CRT.dll [API v.060425]
Module CustomMFD.dll [API v.060425]
Module ExtMFD.dll [API v.060425]
Module FlightData.dll [API v.050206]
Module FlyByMFD.dll [API v.060425]
Module Framerate.dll [API v.050206]
Module GPCMFD.dll [API v.060425]
Module LandMFD.dll [API v.050206]
Module InterMFD51.dll [API v.060425]
Module Meshdebug.dll [API v.060425]
Module OrbiterSound.dll [API v.060425]
Module Rcontrol.dll [API v.050206]
Module ScnEditor.dll [API v.060425]
Module FlyByWire.dll [API v.060425]
Module LaunchMFD.dll [API v.060425]
Module OrreryMFD.dll [API v.060425]
Module VistaBoost.dll [API v.060425]
VistaBoost 1.0: Font smoothing disabled to improve framerate; smoothing will be re-enabled when Orbiter shuts down.


Base install, delta glider Mk.4 in orbit: 54FPS (1280x1024x32)
Log
**** Orbiter.log
Build Sep 29 2006 [v.060929]
Devices enumerated: 6
Devices accepted: 5
==> RGB Emulation
==> Direct3D HAL
==> Direct3D T&L HAL
==> Direct3D HAL (NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT )
==> Direct3D T&L HAL (NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT )
Found 1 joystick(s)
Module AtlantisConfig.dll [API v.060425]
Module DGConfig.dll [API v.060425]


Base install, delta glider Mk.4 in orbit with vista boost: 59-60FPS (1280x1024x32)
Log
**** Orbiter.log
Build Sep 29 2006 [v.060929]
Devices enumerated: 6
Devices accepted: 5
==> RGB Emulation
==> Direct3D HAL
==> Direct3D T&L HAL
==> Direct3D HAL (NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT )
==> Direct3D T&L HAL (NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT )
Found 1 joystick(s)
Module AtlantisConfig.dll [API v.060425]
Module DGConfig.dll [API v.060425]
Module VistaBoost.dll [API v.060425]
VistaBoost 1.0: Font smoothing disabled to improve framerate; smoothing will be re-enabled when Orbiter shuts down.
VistaBoost 1.0: font smoothing re-enabled.

 

[redrover]

Do you have Spacecraft3.dll installed? A buggy version of Spacecraft3 was slowing down my computer to 2 FPS. I solved the problem by re-downloading Spacecraft3 from Vinka's site and installing it.

 

[Gorkyporky]

i installed a new wersion of spacecraft3.dll and its no different

 

[dbeachy1]

Hmm, those numbers sound a little low. Also, I would expect VistaBoost to make more of a difference than you are seeing. I am running Vista x64 here on an Intel Q6700 @ 3.0 GHz / nVidia 280 system, and I am getting the following framerates:

Intel Q6700 @ 3.0 GHz / nVidia 280 system, 1280x1024 window:
 
                             w/VistaBoost   w/o VistaBoost
DG in Orbit, 2D panel view:   ~147 fps          58 fps
DG in Orbit, external view:   ~115 fps          74 fps
XR5 in Orbit, 2D panel view:  ~135 fps          62 fps
XR5 in Orbit, external view:   ~80 fps          45 fps

Here are XR1 benchmark numbers taken from the VistaBoost readme file; this was on a Vista x64 system that was still somewhat faster than yours, but not all that different:

System:   Vista x64 Q6700 Core 2 Duo @ 3.20 GHz w/8800GTX
Scenario: DeltaGlider XR1 default scenario, "DG-XR1 In Orbit"
          Default 2D instrument panel view (exterior framerates are higher).
Resolution   w/VistaBoost   w/o VistaBoost   Difference
----------   ------------   --------------   ----------
1280x1024      114 fps          68 fps         +67.6%

The above numbers were from an XR1's 2D main panel, which has a lot of text to render, so the stock DG FPS numbers would be noticiably higher than that. Even if we reduce the numbers by a conservative 20% to account for the faster processor and card, I would still expect your system to get ~56 FPS in the Vanguard's 2D panel view even without VistaBoost. What FPS are you getting in 2D panel view?

In general, if you have a fast video card you should see a significant jump in FPS on any screen that renders text. Your 8800 GT is a pretty fast card, so I am surprised that you are only seeing a few FPS difference. Are you running the latest drivers from www.nvidia.com?

 

[ar81]

Gamer wisdom says "never upgrade something that works"

 

[Cornflake]

I think we're kind of overlooking the obvious here... Unfortunately I believe the problem is Orbiter's performance on Vista, for some reason, is very poor. It could have something to do with the emulation of DX v1-9 on Vista, but I'm not sure. On the original Orbiter forums I posted explaining how horrible performance was in Vista compared to XP: http://orbit.m6.net/Forum/Default.aspx?g=posts&t=11233 (scroll down a bit to find my post, i couldn't seem to link directly to it.. just to page 3). I will quote myself:

Hehe, I'm kind of bringing back an old thread but I have to post my experience with Orbiter & Vista.

As dbeachy1 says, I've noticed Orbiter is definitely CPU limited under Vista (e.g. switching to a lower resolution or lowering visual details does not increase framerate). It's Very CPU limited. I noticed on a certain scenario I run, based on the Hubble Satellite Deployment scenario, my FPS averages at about 115FPS while looking outside the shuttle with Earth in the background. This exact scene got over 250 FPS with that exact same view in XP (This is done with ClearType off in both Vista in XP since it effects framerate). Now, If I increase my FOV from 40° to 60° my FPS drops to about 75. If I turn on planetarium mode my FPS drops to 49 FPS. At the 49 FPS mark I can noticeably see and feel the choppiness of the scene...

I'm not very happy about that, thats a major FPS decrease. I mean, if planetarium mode lowers my FPS to 49, what will it be like if I'm landed in a complex base with this mode on? I've actually been planning on finally switching to Vista this week, but now it looks like I'm going to have to stick to XP to play Orbiter. It's quite a shame! [...]

I know dbeachy and computerex will probably remember the thread, it sparked a bit of an argument about Vista.

Anywho, I will do some more detailed benchmarking... but in my testing, based on the Hubble Sattelite Deployment scenario, I've seen a - ~50% change in framerate. This is with a completely vanilla install of Orbiter with nothing more than OrbiterSound, with ClearType disabled. Also most updated drivers in Vista and XP.

To me it's pretty conclusive Orbiter simply has trouble, and needs optimizing, in Vista. Hopefully that will come in the next release.

*EDIT* Oh and my hardware: AMD Athlon 64 X2 5000+ dual-core processor, GeForce 8800GTX 768MB video card, 2GB of PC6400 RAM

 

[tl8]

I should point this out: The XR2 gives me the best FPS of any addon in orbiter

 

[dbeachy1]

It could have something to do with the emulation of DX v1-9 on Vista, ...

That is correct (although Vista does not need to emulate DX9). The second part of the problem is that ClearType font smoothing is enabled in Vista by default, which makes the fonts look pretty but does incur a further framerate hit if the user has a relatively fast video card.

The good news is that the next Orbiter version has the graphics engine decoupled from the core, and open-source DX9 and OpenGL graphics clients are already in development (and mostly working, actually) -- DX9 performs much better than DX7 under Vista because it doesn't have to go through a DX7 emulation layer.

 

[Andy44]

New machine blues

Almost a year old, necropost city!

But now that I'm using Vista-64 I am having the same problem. I have a nifty new fast computer, and the framerate starts off nice and high, up in the 90s or 100s even.

The problems start when I start using different MFDs, especially if I open Surface MFD in an external window. When I do this, the FPS drops to single digits. Turning it off seems to cure it, but it's very bad. I also turned off ClearType as suggested in this thread.

Odd thing is that on my 4.5-year-old XP machine, a FPS of 16 looks and works just fine, but on my Vista machine a FPS of 20-30 looks choppy.:compbash:

Anyone ever solve this problem?

Here's my log:

**** Orbiter.log
Build Sep 29 2006 [v.060929]
Devices enumerated: 6
Devices accepted: 5
==> RGB Emulation
==> Direct3D HAL
==> Direct3D T&L HAL
==> Direct3D HAL (NVIDIA GeForce G 105M )
==> Direct3D T&L HAL (NVIDIA GeForce G 105M )
Found 1 joystick(s)
Module AtlantisConfig.dll [API v.060425]
Module DGConfig.dll [API v.060425]
Module OrbiterSound.dll [API v.041022]
Module ExtMFD.dll [API v.060425]
Module ScnEditor.dll [API v.060425]
Module AbsoluteKillrot.dll [API v.060425]
Module Accelerometer.dll [API v.060425]
Module AeroBrakeMFD.dll [API v.060425]
Module AttitudeMFD.dll [API v.060425]
Module AutoHoverMFD.dll [API v.060425]
Module BaseSyncMFD.dll [API v.060425]
Module BurnTimeMFD.dll [API v.060425]
Module EquationMFD.dll [API v.050206]
Module HUDdataMFD.dll [API v.060425]
Module Map3DMFD.dll [API v.060425]
Module MapMFD.dll [API v.050206]
Module RendezvousMFD.dll [API v.050206]
Module SensorMFD.dll [API v.060425]
Module transx.dll [API v.060425]
Module StateVectorMFD.dll [API v.060425]
Module LunarTransferMFD.dll [API v.060425]
Module Meshdebug.dll [API v.060425]

---------- Post added at 11:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:12 PM ----------

BTW, I don't know what VistaBoost is...

 

[tblaxland]

The problems start when I start using different MFDs, especially if I open Surface MFD in an external window. When I do this, the FPS drops to single digits. Turning it off seems to cure it, but it's very bad. I also turned off ClearType as suggested in this thread.
...
Anyone ever solve this problem?

It sounds like it is due to the GDI drawing (Surface MFD does a lot of it), as highlighted by Hielor. Unfortunately there is no solution at this time.

BTW, I don't know what VistaBoost is...

http://www.orbithangar.com/search_quick.php?text=vistaboost

 

[Andy44]

Well, this is very disheartening. Looks like my Orbiter time is seriously curbed until either Win 7 upgrade or Orbiter 20xx gets released.

Maybe there is an alternative to Surface MFD, but that MFD is pretty much a basic staple. And going back to using no external windows pretty much sets me almost back to Orbiter 2005.

 

[tblaxland]

Well, this is very disheartening. Looks like my Orbiter time is seriously curbed until either Win 7 upgrade or Orbiter 20xx gets released.

More time for creating those beautiful meshes then :speakcool:

 

[Andy44]

Yeah, but I need to test-fly the completed product before roll-out at the OrbitHangar. I think I really should get the fan fixed on my old XP machine.

You know it's bad when you seriously consider going backwards to an old computer. And all because of Orbiter!