Question Long text vs short text?

Urwumpe

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And still the highest form of culture:

You step in the stream,
but the water has moved on.
This page is not here.


It does not matter how many words you write, it does not make a weak message more important. Even worse: The more words you use, the more you weaken your expression to noise. Real good poetry and culture does not aim at boring the reader to death, but to transport your thoughts over more than just one dimension. Which, IMHO is a good distinction between poets and steam talkers.

Also, I consider the word "high culture" already a sign of arrogant imperialism. "My culture is higher than yours" does not show, that you are especially enlightened. It only shows that your culture obviously requires force to be protected from better cultures displacing it. Even hip-hop shows more culture (and more blood in the vessels) as many examples of "high culture".

Information is not knowledge.
Knowledge is not wisdom.
Wisdom is not truth.
Truth is not beauty.
Beauty is not love.
Love is not music.
Music is THE BEST...
 

simonpro

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Could you say the original post again, but shorter? Too much to read there.
 

SiberianTiger

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Речь - серебро, а молчание - золото.
A Russian proverb, meaning in English: "Speaking is silver and keeping silent is gold". Obviously coined when gold already topped silver in price. I'm just quoting it here so you wouldn't count my short replies for being rude towards you.

To your knowledge, Russian has a different approach to making your speech sound flourishing, and this is done through use of different suffixes, endings and other ways of mutating a word, thus giving it different tints of meaning. It does not make sentences drastically long. Also you have a freedom to reorder words in your sentence, often giving it a different meaning, especially in interrogative sentences (much like Master Yoda speaks). And because of this, direct translations from English, for instance, usually sound so meagrely in Russian. After a good artistic translation the Russian/English character amount ratio usually growths to 1.4, though there are some things you can say in Russian with better brevity than in English.

And please, mind that I don't really care how many words you spend to express your thought. It may be the cultural background behind wording. But throwing in nonsensical or unverified arguments, dodging the discussion by drifting off topic, ignoring questions asked to you - all this is known in every culture and language and is commonly regarded as a bad habit of keeping a discussion, perhaps since Aristotle's peripatetic school. I can't see why annoying your opponent with such things can be a sign of a high culture.

And one thing... Since you don't seem to care about on-topicness, who is that on your avatar?
 

ar81

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But throwing in nonsensical or unverified arguments, dodging the discussion by drifting off topic, ignoring questions asked to you - all this is known in every culture and language and is commonly regarded as a bad habit of keeping a discussion, perhaps since Aristotle's peripatetic school. I can't see why annoying your opponent with such things can be a sign of a high culture.

And one thing... Since you don't seem to care about on-topicness, who is that on your avatar?

People here have some more freedom to go off topic. I find it gives a more relaxing tone. The tight on topicness is something that I found more present in European culture. I find it a bit robotic. It may add lots of efficiency to wording, but still I find it robotic.

The hardest thing for me is to switch audiences. But the interesting thing is that I put the cultural differences to the test.

Annoying an oponent, in my previous wording, can be done with high culture or with low culture. When I came to M6 I really felt annoyed, and at some point harassed. So basically I was putting in words the position of the other side, so the contradiction is noticed.

The main premise behind the harassment I felt, was that I was ignorant. And you see this kind of expression mixed in many of the replies I have received. The argument seems to be that those who do that have high culture, while I must be probably an ignorant from third world.

I blame the competitive culture people may have faced in their homelands.

And I see that what is ordinary wording here, is absolutely shocking outside. And that's a silly way to collide. Should I quit my cultural background? This is what I am debating now.
 

ar81

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With my way I would have faced problems if I had lived in another country.
And then I understand why people feel like outcasts in their own countries.
If life in this forum ressembles life in other countries, now I understand why suicide kids look for help in internet.

In our country we have a verb for the habit of putting other people down and show them as inferior. It is the verb "chotear".

Singular
Yo choteo
Usted chotea
El chotea

Plural
Nosotros choteamos
Ustedes chotean
Ellos chotean

Ahem, just curious anyway, whose face is your avatar? :)

Not sure.
I found the picture somewhere, and I created this avatar as company logo when I played X Beyond the frontier.
 
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SiberianTiger

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The main premise behind the harassment I felt, was that I was ignorant. And you see this kind of expression mixed in many of the replies I have received. The argument seems to be that those who do that have high culture, while I must be probably an ignorant from third world.

I blame the competitive culture people may have faced in their homelands.

And I see that what is ordinary wording here, is absolutely shocking outside. And that's a silly way to collide. Should I quit my cultural background? This is what I am debating now.

Pablo, look, I believe that you are mostly fighting ghosts here. I bet that absolute most of forum members first care about how good you as artist and as addon developer and tutorial writer, and all in all a nice guy. And absolute most wouldn't give a damn about the flag you keep your avatar, if only you stopped mentioning in every next of your post that you are from Costa Rica and what a crappy third world country it is. AFAIR, you aren't a patriot of your country, are you? Mind I'm just wording your own ideas. I'm sure if you stop dwelling on this, nobody will ever bash you on this basis. We have people from Philippines, from China, from Brasil (at least there were some on m6) and I believe everyone has an equal chance to be a respectful member here - no matter what's the country of origin.

That was the description of the problem you have with other people. Now, there are certain problems some people have with you - in times when you start talking of things you aren't completely sure about, but claim you are. When you get cornered, you just change topic, calling this your freedom, ignore questions or say that you've been "putting the idea to test" which is a weird kind of nonsense, if you ask me. At times, it even seems like you forget what's been in the post you are answering to. Avoid this attitudes and nobody would care about how many extra things you add in your posts. Use the quote feature to see other people's sentences you are replying to.

Please regard this a number of friendly advices you are free to accept or forget. Enough for now...
 

Urwumpe

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People here have some more freedom to go off topic. I find it gives a more relaxing tone. The tight on topicness is something that I found more present in European culture. I find it a bit robotic. It may add lots of efficiency to wording, but still I find it robotic.

The right to go off-topic is no right to escape an answer by flooding the discussion with evasive statements.

It is also no European culture thing - even Arabian countries, which have a much bigger dislike of mentioning offensive thoughts, have a dislike of people, who talk an abundance of words without content.

Also, you currently insult the audience in the forum more with your steam talking, as if you would think first what you want to say, and then write it.

Calling people who apply thought to their posts and think about the words they use "robotic" is an even deeper insult, as showing the empathy to think about how you want to be understood. A forum is a social place and usually no poetry contest. If I don't want to be understood at all, I can as well shutdown the computer, take my running shoes and hit the road.


The hardest thing for me is to switch audiences. But the interesting thing is that I put the cultural differences to the test.

Simple: Assume we are intelligent people, who are able to see, when you talk about things without having any clue about them. You deal with intelligent people here. Without exception.

The main premise behind the harassment I felt, was that I was ignorant.

Nothing is as society-changing, as the silent work on yourself. :p

I blame the competitive culture people may have faced in their homelands.

And the next one. You call it competitive, others might call it social. Think about it.

Actually, I perceive your writing style as more competive: You try to suffocate possible criticism on your ideas, but writing so much at once, often even outright nonsense, that it is a so time consuming task to read and understand your posts, that only few people have the time per day to answer it - you are in this context, pretty much the same character, as people who have to start talking louder in a verbal discussion, repeating their points until they shout, instead of interacting with the opposing side. You try to shout us down - and if that is not competitive, I don't know what else on this planet.

In my homeland culture, I can look in discussions at role models like Hauser and Kienzle... any questions? Even the first real political debate between TSG and R. Koch had shown more interaction as your posts in the last months.

Also, have faced sounds like we are victims of it... but actually, we are our culture. Germanies culture did not start with Goethe and did not die with the Toten Hosen (where it is interesting to note, that the singer of this Punk Band is a pretty well-regarded guest in political talk shows).

And I see that what is ordinary wording here, is absolutely shocking outside. And that's a silly way to collide. Should I quit my cultural background? This is what I am debating now.

Ordinary? Shocking? (and again a good way to insult people)

Welcome to the world where all people are equal, only rated by their capabilities and not their heritage or language. Didn't you dream about it on your posts a few days ago? A world, where nobody is left behind? Your elitism you expose in this thread just shows, how deep your care for the poor of this world goes: Not even into your ears. Ordinary people don't write in extraordinary language. And we are all as extraordinary as ordinary mortals can get.

Most people here pay attention to be understood. They think about what they want to say, and write according to it. They don't insert paragraphs of evasive content, to blow their posts up and discourage readers from accessing them. When I ask you about your experience inside your bank, which you used for boasting yourself, and you talk about baroque writing and friends unknown to the people here, it is showing that you have no intent answering the question or have even interest in the topic - you just want to keep on talking and overwhelm any opposition by flooding.

I don't even know which cultural background you defend - but I have the strong feeling that I am not among the people who would miss it. I perceive it as an arrogant one, without any reason to be arrogant at all.

To get back to M6 times: Get a blog. We had been there before, and I know you will be whining to the moderators again for me commanding you around, but if you want to write about


  • Baroque poetry
  • Esoteric economic concepts
  • Your vita, real or invented
  • The evil European empire
  • The evil American dominion
  • The evil capitalism
  • alternative history
  • The beautiful high culture of Costa Rica
without having to deal with people questioning it, a blog is better suited as a discussion inside a forum. There you can also write as long as you want and have as many deviations form the plot as you want. 99% of all blogs are not read by humans anyway.

Maybe such a vent for your "poetic excursions" will enable you to limit your participations in the forum to the important distillate of your thoughts, without having to fear feeling insulted by our extravagant language.


Well, time for some early Christmas holidays for me. :leaving:
 

Urwumpe

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In that case I could be making 2 mistakes:
1.The one I am making
2.The mistake of not seeing it.

Yeah, and you could be doing both at the same time.
 

ar81

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Yeah, and you could be doing both at the same time.

Second one is a problem of ego.
Ego is a force that makes you fight wars you do not want to fight.:sos:
Ego commands and then you get into trouble.:chair:

I just wonder if in the future, ego could be considered as a disease.
 

RichWall

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In that case I could be making 2 mistakes:
1.The one I am making
2.The mistake of not seeing it.

3.
The right to go off-topic is no right to escape an answer by flooding the discussion with evasive statements.

4.
Also, you currently insult the audience in the forum more with your steam talking, as if you would think first what you want to say, and then write it.

5.
in times when you start talking of things you aren't completely sure about, but claim you are. When you get cornered, you just change topic, calling this your freedom, ignore questions or say that you've been "putting the idea to test" which is a weird kind of nonsense,
 

Omhra

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nunca asi...

AR81,
Et al,

It is easy to insult no one if the rules of discussion are understood...
Year after year the same truth... is proved.
In a forum like this science with logic is how discourse is achieved...
And gut-felling emotions can jump-off a cliff.
Romanticized attachment to ideals is not suffered here lightly.
Like a noose on your neck it will grasp you tightly...
To wear your emotions, all, on your sleeve
will serve you no more than would cutting your wrist...

You mention suicide with metronome rhythm...
I wonder, good Sir, what thoughts you're paradin'
Mind or emotion, heart-pulse or cold fact,
neither is basis from which one should act.
Relax, take a breath keep on thinking
read your last line; keep from blinking...

Wonder, always, what the other side will gain with your say...
Have a glass, pour out some good wine...
Speak honestly, from truth never stray,
but above all never throw your pearls to the swine.


Enough of that..
:peace:
 
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