HyperDart - A new spaceplane

[CigDriver]

Another quick update:

I've been working away over the last almost month. The HyperDart Mark I is esentially ready for beta tests now. I figured out some load/save problems with the help of Doug B. I also got dynamic textures working for my little computer display that shows fuel and trim levels. (a little note, make sure what you are drawing on the bitmap is smaller than the area you specified to draw on, it will save you lots of headaches...don't ask how I know ) I also added an attachment point in the bay for the HDLander and other cargo items. So far you have to attach via scn file, but you can jettison in-sim. I'm looking at how to grab things in-sim now. I need to make some simple dlls for the telescope and hab modules so they can be attached to the HyperDart. They should be easy, no animations or anything

the last part of beta I is the HD lander. I'm now working some of the HyperDart features into it. It will feature 3 MFDs, RCS mode Switchs, aero mode switches (yes it has aero surfaces) and the autopilot switches. the final part will be a switch to change the main engines into hover engines so it will work with landMFD.

i should have it ready in a week or two.

 

[eveningsky339]

Good to hear! It sounds like it's coming along. Panels can definitely be a pain in the butt to make when it comes to the details, sort of like forgetting a single semi-colon in the dll...

 

[Arrowstar]

Will the MkI include any electrical or life support subsystems simulation?

Looking forward to the release!

 

[wehaveaproblem]

cool dev this one, looking forward to testing it... or rather crashing it, which is more likely.

 

[CigDriver]

Will the MkI include any electrical or life support subsystems simulation?

Not yet. I hope to have that for the Mark II. At some point it will have a full system similar to an XR series or DGIV. I thought it would be cool to program it so you have to set the output level of the fuel cell. More power when you have lots of stuff on, lower the output to conserve fuel when there is less load. I might not get that crazy though

 

[Usquanigo]

Just a bump to this thread. I just found it tonight, and have been absolutely salivating over the thought of getting to take it for a spin.

You've hit on ALL the kick ass points - realistic (accounting for thrust, fuel and launch methods, so that it's not "magic powered", like the DG), fully detailed and functional, awesome looking, and most importantly ove all - complete(!).

I can not tell you just how much a VC and added detail means. Dozens of seemingly cool add-ons that I've found and downloaded, I've tossed in frustration because they really only look cool in the thumb-nail. lol None seem to have any damage modeling, nor even so much as a panel view, let alone a VC, and often even the models themselves are unfinished.

(Of course, they are ALL better than *I* could do, it's just that I really get put off by a lack of detail and pits, and get suckered in by cool concepts and eye candy, and I'm rambling now.... lol)

Anyway, this looks so cool (in every aspect). I absolutely can not wait to try it. And I love the powerpoint presentations too, those rock.

BTW, just a question, I'm not familiar with high supersonic aero (sub-sonic is what I know, and a smattering of knowledge of what happens as you cross over, but that's it), how would that plane fly (in atmo)? It looks like the top of the body is too little surface area for lift, and the ridge would cause detached flow, and the sides angled like that would perhaps even induce negative lift. Is it pure newton and almost no Coanda?

Please don't change it, it looks too sweet, and as you said, it's based on a real design, so I'm just curious for my own knowledge.

 

[Danny Ramone]

This is looking really cool. I don't suppose you're using Dougs XRVesselCtrl extension to the vessel2 interface? That would let us cockpit builders fly it "for real".

Can you elaborate on what that does? I was thinking that this cockpit would be an awesome basis for a simpit.

Also whens the real military version going to come out, one with lasers and bombs etc etc.

 

[yagni01]

Can you elaborate on what that does? I was thinking that this cockpit would be an awesome basis for a simpit.

Its an extension to VESSEL2 that provides exposure to more vessel systems. The primary advantage is in revealing the 'state' of many vessel components, i.e. doors, hatches, radiator, engines (including gimbal position) and a full warning system, which let me drive indicators for all those things, or to alternately create a detailed ship status display MFD. Secondly, it allows clients to 'set' values to specific states. For example a gear switch where down commands the gear down and up commands the gear up (or doors to be open or closed) rather than the simple 'toggle' command normally provided. This in conjunction with the indicators make for a much more realistic flight deck.

My flight deck is highly reliant on these extra functions, so I'll normally be flying vessels that use that interface. You can see more in the Orb:Connect project package on Orbit Hange Mods [ame="http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=3394"]Orb:Connect v1.0 C++ Project[/ame]

 

[CigDriver]

BTW, just a question, I'm not familiar with high supersonic aero (sub-sonic is what I know, and a smattering of knowledge of what happens as you cross over, but that's it), how would that plane fly (in atmo)? It looks like the top of the body is too little surface area for lift, and the ridge would cause detached flow, and the sides angled like that would perhaps even induce negative lift. Is it pure newton and almost no Coanda?

Please don't change it, it looks too sweet, and as you said, it's based on a real design, so I'm just curious for my own knowledge.

I couldn't tell you. My fluid dynamics experience is limited to one freshman engineering class. A bit about pressure and speeds in pipes is all I remember learning about (it was 15 years ago!). The design is based on the FDL-7, you can try looking it up but there isn't much info on it. I don't think it ever got beyond the idea stage. However the shape does make lift, check out the X-24B (I think), it does have a similar shape and flew a few times.

The overall capabilities have moved a bit from truely realistic to near-future. My propellant tanks are at 100 psi vs the 20-something they use today. Allows me to fit 275000 kg in there .

I'll have a beta before the end of the year. I've got everything I wanted for the Mark I, and even added a few things. I'm currently trying to figure out the best way to do dynamic attachements. Right now you can attach the lander via the cfg file, and then detach it with a button in the VC. I'd like the ability to grapple it via a button also. I'd like to see this in for Mark I, but it might not be.

I did break my unwritten rule of no additional modules needed. It actually went with UMMU compatability, but I figured everyone had that to support a DGIV or XR series vessel. Anyway you'll need Universal RMS. A nifty little program that lets you add an rms to any vehicle. Saved me TONS of work! I'll dig up a link to it when I release the beta. I also have a file for aerobrake mfd, but it will not be a required addon.

 

[Usquanigo]

I'll download and install anything I need to.

Taking some liberties with future tech isn't a bad thing, so long as it's reasonable, and you only bumped pressure by 5 times. I don't know anything about liquid pressures in containers, so that doesn't seem all that "out there" to me. lol

Why are current tech limited to 20 psi, OOC? And are they old tech? (like the shuttle, made in the late 70s) I would tend to think at least a little more is possible now.

As for the whole once around thing, that does sound cool, but what about your launcher idea? As you don't need as much fuel for the once around as you do for orbital ops, or even lunar trips, maybe cut back the pressure some and use a launcher.... something like the briefly planned Sanger Silverbird (which, on a side note, I would desperately love to have, as realistic as absolutely possible - old school and manual are my thing lol) - that used a rocket sled to give a big boost, sort of like a cannon or your mag-lev rail-gun idea. There is a Delta-Cannon that I haven't played with yet, and also a giant sized steam catapult too, perhaps they can be used, or modified to work? I don't know much about modding.

Can't wait for the beta.

 

[CigDriver]

It was the shuttle that I got 20psi for the tanks. I don't remember where i read it though. Like you, I thought upping it 5X wasn't too far out of the realm of possibility.

As for the launcher, I do plan on doing this at some point. I'm building C++ skills as I go. At the moment, coding air breathing engines for orbiter is a bit above my level, but the example of the scram jets for the stock DG is making more and more sense to me. Ideally I want the XB-70 derived launcher, perhaps in the mark II or III version . I did check out one of the launcher-cannons that is available, and it works, but just didn't seem realistic to me. something about about going 0-2500m/s in o seconds seemed a bit extreme! I also played around with using aircraft.dll, but it crashes everytime you launch the dart...not good! So, I've set her up right now for LEO ops with a full fuel load. Most times I can get into a 250x250 orbit, but I have gotten into a 400x400 polar orbit from vandenberg once. My piloting skills are not to consistent :blush: Those numbers are just using the main engines and fuel, there is also an OMS system that can be used after that.

I'm off to look over some of the code that computerex(sp?) included in his pack from orbithangar, he has a nice little attachement manager in there that I may be able to use

 

[EliNaut]

Hello CigD, nice work so far!

If I may add my two cents, based on the Hyper Darts design, I think for a launcher it would be really cool to take a "railgun" approach, like the DG catapult on OH. Heh those of you who read my "White Bird of Peace" thread know i'm nuts about mass drivers, despite the claimed low efficiency of them.

~EliNaut

 

[Usquanigo]

I think the XB-70 Launcher is utter awesomeness incarnate, don't drop that idea.

I was just talking about a launcher (rocket sled/cannon/catapault/rail-gun/etc) for the whole "once around thing", but needing the 'XL-70' to get orbital.

You could even have the (non-XL-70) launcher be a further development by the company for their military customers, so that they don't need to spend the money on flying the XL-70 for every single mission if they don't need to.

I agree that going instantly to 2500m/s is a bit out there, I've never played with that delta-cannon thing yet, I just knew it existed and was along the same lines.

 

[yagni01]

Or a Fireball XL-5 rocket sled thingy

 

[T.Neo]

What about a solid first stage?

Solids can be made very simple, and can be kept in storage for long periods.
They don't have to be reused, but they can be.

The booster doesn't need to get the dart far, either. Just 27km and 900m/s.

 

[CigDriver]

At some point I will go back to the XB-70 derived launcher. The only thing holding me back is not having the understanding of C++ to program the airbreating engines just yet. I will get it figured out though.

In other news, I have a beta version ready for download! It is an early beta, but the basics are there, and she is fully functional. You will need UMMU by Dansteph (http://orbiter.dansteph.com) and URMS by Yury Kulchitsky ([ame="http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=3373"]www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=3373[/ame]). VandenbergAFB-2006 by usonian is recommended ([ame="http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=2380"]VandenbergAFB - 2006[/ame]) but not required. you will just be starting in an empty loaction if you do not have it.


A special thanks to dbeachy1 for his help in pointing me in the right direction when I got stuck with C++.

Here is a snippet from the readme that few will read otherwise:
Know Issues:
Textures need work
No pilots
UMMUs die when exiting a landed HyperDart
Many switches in the HyperDart's VC are inactive
Aerodynamics of the HDLander are a little screwy
HDLander's DLL is actually called minilander
I'm sure there are more!

HyperDart:
The HyperDart features a fully interactive virtual cockpit. There is no 2D panel.
Some key controls:
Left Panel:
· Engine Mode Switch - allows selection (left/right click) of propulsion system. OMS - OFF(none)- MAIN(aerospikes)
· RCS Mode Switch - allows selection (left/right click) of RCS mode. OFF - Rotation - Linear
· Aero Surface Mode - allows selection (left/right click) of Aero surface control. OFF - Pitch only - All surfaces
· Gear Lever - lower/raise the gear (left click on the lever base)
· Bay Door Lever - Open/Close the bay doors (left click on the lever base)
Lower Left Panel:
· Throttle Quadrant - controls the currently selected engines (clcik & drag on the throttle base) - currently there is not individual throttle control.
Center Panel:
· Left and Right MFDs. Control is standard orbiter setup. The buttons are not dynamically labled so use the "MNU" key if you need a reminder of the controls.
Right Panel:
· Elevator trim (click on the + and - buttons at the top and bottom of the graph
· Fuel Displays - graphical and numeric indicators - the lines on the graph change from white to yellow (25%) to red (8.5%). Thers is one display for each tank (Main, OMS, RCS)
· Orbiter Basic Autopilot Selectors (left click to activate/deactivate)
· HUD Mode Selection (left click to activate)

Right lower Panel
· light Switches - Beacon, Strobe, Nav (under beacon) (left click to activate/deactivate)


HDLander (listed as minilander in the scenario editor)
the HDLander features a functional VC. There is no 2D panel
Some key controls:
Upper Panel
· Left and Right MFDs. Control is standard orbiter setup. The buttons are not dynamically labled so use the "MNU" key if you need a reminder of the controls.
· The Center MFD is the Orbiter HUD

Left Arm Rest
· RCS Mode Switch - allows selection (left/right click) of RCS mode. OFF - Rotation - Linear
· Aero Surface Mode - allows selection (left/right click) of Aero surface control. OFF - Pitch only - All surfaces
· Engine Mode Switch - allows selection (left/right click) of how the main propulsion system is modeled. Main or hover engines. This was created for landMFD before I knew that it did not support hover engines on the z axis I decided to leave it so you could choose how you wanted the engines to operate
· Speed Brake Switch (clicl and drag to operate) not labled yet, up is 0% down is 100%. BUG - when you first click to drag the brake will jump to 100% deployed.

Right Arm Rest
· Orbiter Basic Autopilot Selectors (left click to activate/deactivate)
· Nose Cone Switch - Open/Close the nose pedals (left click to open/close)
· Landing Gear Switch - lower/raise the gear (left click to raise/lower)
· Lights Switch - Activates the Beacons lights (left click to activate/deactivate)
· Cabin Hatch Switch - Opens/closes the cabin hatch (left click to open/close)

UMMU EVA with the HDLander:
Default EVA location is the nose docking port. If the cabin hatch is open EVA will take place there. If the cabin hatch is open and the HDLander is on the ground (landed) the the EVA will appear on the ground next to the HDLander. (this functionality will be added to the hyperdart)

You can get the Beta HyperDart at http://www.animatedexistence.com/orbiter/hyperdart/hyperdart.zip

The download includes the HyperDart, the HDLander, a telescope for the HyperDart, and a few scenarios that cover the testing and initail deployment of the two systems.

Enjoy!

 

[Usquanigo]

:woohoo:

Downloading now. :speakcool:

Will report anything I find other than the already listed known issues.

Man, when you said "before the end of the year" were meant JUST, didn't ya? lol




-----Post Added-----


I love that cockpit man, it's sweet! The controls are all there (unlike the stock DG for example), everything is easy to see and get to, and I can even run with an FOV of 70 and still read the MFDs, though 60 still lets me see the whole HUD and the important data on the MFDs.

The view out the pit is incredible too, great visibility. Excepting rear-ward vis, a view like that would make for a great fighter cockpit. (speaking of over the nose and to the side visibility)

I have noticed a few other things outside of your list of knowns. Did you want me to post them here, or in a PM?

 

[Arrowstar]

I noticed the Dart's atmospheric flight seems to be very touchy. Is this by design, or am I simply a poor pilot?

 

[CigDriver]

Man, when you said "before the end of the year" were meant JUST, didn't ya? lol

It has been in this shape for about a week now, I really wanted to get the grapple thing working. Sadly I just couldn't get it to work yet so I released it without it. On a related note, I forgot to mention in the readme that there is a button on the display on the right hand panel that jettisons a payload. If you have a payload you will see it over the bay area on the hyperdart schematic.

I have noticed a few other things outside of your list of knowns. Did you want me to post them here, or in a PM?

Constructive feedback is welcomed here

I noticed the Dart's atmospheric flight seems to be very touchy. Is this by design, or am I simply a poor pilot?

Exactly how is it touchy? Pitch sensitive, roll sensitive, easy so stall? I tried to make it feel like it was on the edge of control, but I guess in reality a FBW system would be designed to take that out. I'm open to suggestions on the flight model.

 

[eveningsky339]

Exactly how is it touchy? Pitch sensitive, roll sensitive, easy so stall? I tried to make it feel like it was on the edge of control, but I guess in reality a FBW system would be designed to take that out. I'm open to suggestions on the flight model.

Hmm, is it fly-by-wire or hydraulic (in regards to the control surfaces)? Fly-by-wire would be more touchy, whereas hydraulic would be slower in terms of the time between pilot input and "reaction". It's a classic Airbus vs. Boeing problem.

By the way, the API guide in the SDK has a fairly detailed section on airbreathing engines. Its complex, though.