Project Here goes nothing: The Delta-StarLiner G42

[NuttyPro67]

Absolutely, I agree from my limited knowledge. To answer a previous contributors question about the need for wings, they really aren't all that useful past the sound barrier. Infact, most jets completely lack a lift generating airfoil on the wing, simply using it to help keep the jet going in one direction like large horizontal stabilizers. For proof, here is a video of an F-15 that landed with ONE WING!

Essentially, the wings are only useful for helping the jet change direction and maintain its current direction - concepts that are only useful when your in a combat situation. Consider it like having more traction or bigger tires on your car. However, without the combat situation, the push the engines provide to change and maintain direction is more than enough for our purposes.

However, you still want to land and takeoff like an airplane so you need enough wing area to make takeoff possible without breaking the sound barrier. The important number here is the wing loading, basically the amount of weight each square foot of wing has to hold up, usually calculated by dividing the total weight by the total wing area. The higher the wing loading, the faster you have to go to become and stay airborn. This is why the recent X-33 takeoffs like a rocket and lands like an airplane. With a full fuel load, the wing loading is too high for it to takeoff like an airplane, so they get it up like a rocket. While the empty load is just fine for landing.

Great progress Moach, I'm itching to get your next WIP in my orbiter!

 

[Mindblast]

Have you seen this site: http://www.aerospaceweb.org/design/waverider/waverider.shtml
It shows some shapes of hypersonic waveriders optimized for different Mach numbers and conditions.

 

[Coolhand]

yeah i've looked at that page myself before now and the problem that ships like this and the xr2 and even the space shuttle as a real world example have is that they have to operate over a variety of speeds and aren't intended for atmospheric cruising as say a mach6 waverider might. so there's no particular optimised shape that works well all the time. So really the ideal solution is to dynamically change the shape of your vehicle as you accellerate, or just make a compromise.

Perhaps another good real world example, though not as exotic is Concorde, which has a very clever delta wing that works very efficiently at mach2 but also allows for a lot of lift at low speeds due to how the wing is very carefully curved.

 

[Moach]

(...)
Perhaps another good real world example, though not as exotic is Concorde, which has a very clever delta wing that works very efficiently at mach2 but also allows for a lot of lift at low speeds due to how the wing is very carefully curved.

correct! - which is why the G42 has delta wings - notice the similarity to those on the concorde, it even has the same leading edge curve

although they appear really large, the G42's wings have a deceivingly sleek profile - and they blend to the body, so you have to consider the whole shape of the ship, and not think of the "wings" in a conventional way

anyways, this type of airfoil doesn't generate lift in exactly the same way as most aircraft do... it's designed to create lift at high AoA by exploiting a clever vortex flow :thumbup:


i think it should work :hmm:

---------- Post added at 10:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:43 AM ----------

well then!

it's been a while since the last one - so i'm uploading the fourth WIP release as of now...

i've included the source files for code, but not for the model and textures, those are waaaay to large (i'll put those up separately later)


i'm not really done with the rear cabin, but i figure it's good enough to satisfy ppl's curiosity, right? :lol:

there are a few new features now - including ground-efefct lift, drag-based rudders, airbrakes and some more....


the engine flight envelopes are now set by bitmap files and are a lot more precise - if you do things just right, you should reach orbit with about 5% of your fuel supply (make sure you engage the last engine mode as you reach the 30k mark on propellant, or you'll have oxy-prop disbalance and will end up with a surplus which you can't burn)

one of the scenarions shows how neatly the URMS fits in the cargo bay -- obviously, you need to have it installed to avoid the infamous CTD



anyways, it's up! get it here!


cheers!

 

[Dman1410]

i downloaded the wip extracted it to orbiter, but when i load up the scenario there is no ship just nothing orbiter says its there but theres no mesh no engines, cant even make it move, its invisible

 

[Moach]

i downloaded the wip extracted it to orbiter, but when i load up the scenario there is no ship just nothing orbiter says its there but theres no mesh no engines, cant even make it move, its invisible

strange, i've re-checked the zip, there doesn't seem to be anything missing... are you sure you've installed everything properly? no files missing? Orbiter2010 version (not beta)...

what does the log file say?


EDIT:

seems i've compiled the dll as "debug" mode again... sorry 'bout that - no problem, tho... you just need to install visual studio 2008 so you get the debug libraries it requires...
i'll fix that later... can't really do it from here (at work), since all the files are back home

 

[Wishbone]

Thanks for the very neat aerospacecraft, right now when I'm in orbit in Earth's shadow cannot see buttons in the 3D cockpit - they are completely black on black background. Wonder if local lights would be helpful inside the vehicle.

 

[Marcvs101]

Thanks for the very neat aerospacecraft, right now when I'm in orbit in Earth's shadow cannot see buttons in the 3D cockpit - they are completely black on black background. Wonder if local lights would be helpful inside the vehicle.

I dont know if you can make a new lightsource inside the cabin but you can use night reflecting textures like the ones for the lava lakes on Io or for the earth nightlights to simulate cabin light

 

[Moach]

I dont know if you can make a new lightsource inside the cabin but you can use night reflecting textures like the ones for the lava lakes on Io or for the earth nightlights to simulate cabin light

yes, something in that area is definitely in the plans! :thumbup:
just remembering that this is a WIP release, so keep in mind that there's a lot that needs to be done still

but if you have any good ideas in mind, please do share - i appreciate the input


cheers

 

[Marcvs101]

I have just discovered that Orbiter 2010 supports local light sources!
on your lauchpad there is a scenery under the visual improvements folder that is insidethe 2010 folder called "Spotlights"

(to make it work go to visual effects and you'll see the "local light sources" option)

Now you can use this option for a docking light and for a inside cockpit light, if possible

(i have the 100830 version avaliable here)

http://downloadorbitersim.com/?page_id=42

 

[Eccentrus]

Moach, I just took this steed again yesterday, and when I'm in space the RCS doesn't want to turn on, even when I turned it from the "default" orbiter cockpit, all autopilot are lost/dysfunctional there.

 

[jedidia]

yes, something in that area is definitely in the plans!

Just make the materials luminous, that's the usual way to go.

 

[GuiConteDGIV2X]

That is a good idea use the docking lights!
Do you think the project release date can be published or you still don't know?
Please remember the visual effects like the Transonic condensation!
If the G42 Starliner crash what is the planned effect you are working in?A angel aimed towards Sun like AMSO or other Effect or just crash to pieces?Like GL-01,Please Awnser

 

[Axel]

There 2 bugs,
1. I can't activate next engine stuff
2. the HUD is unreadable, i see only a mix of green points

 

[Moach]

hmm... the "next engine stuff" is activated by the "=" key - it doesn't work on the scenarios that start already in orbit, since you're already in OMS mode (and i haven't coded a way to switch the engines "back" :lol

or is that not working at all?


now, the HUD should be readable... are you running it with the OGLA thing? - 'cause if so, i haven't tested it at all for compatibility yet - for stock graphics it really shouldn't do that... what orbiter version are you running?

also, the G42's HUD and MFD's use a ton of GDI works (yes, i know, i have yet to port it to sketchpad) - so that may even be affected by Windows version and other systems specs such as GPU drivers, etc...

i could probably help you better if you posted your pc specs :thumbup:

 

[Marcvs101]

hmm... the "next engine stuff" is activated by the "=" key - it doesn't work on the scenarios that start already in orbit, since you're already in OMS mode (and i haven't coded a way to switch the engines "back" :lol

I would suggest you to put a switch or some buttons in the cabin: keyboards might differ from place to place so someone might have the " ì " key instead of the " = " key.

To make an example: i have to press shift + zero for the = sign

 

[Axel]

@Moach
Ok i can activate now the next level, by pressin "´", its the next key left to backspace. But this works only one time, from ramjet to scramjet, if i reach 800 m/s. Scramjet goes to 3000m/s, but nothing happens if i press this key again. And i pressed all Keys, nothing happens. I support "Marcvs101" idea to implement a switch key at the VC. Good to have a VC :thumbup:.

I use ofcourse the newest orbiter version 100830. In your screenshots i can see ORbiter 2006. I did not install another grafic clients, its the original package. I have a ATI4870 graficboard with original Catalyst driver, an AMD7750 dualcore, 4 Gb ram, WindowsXP32bit.
May driver setting is 8x Antialiasing and 8x Anisotroph filtering.

And further, i can't hear any sounds of your vessel, nothing from the list in the directory! Only the runway and wind sounds from orbiter itself, when your vessel is moving.

 

[Dayderness]

hello guys. I know that my post is older than 30 days and affect the forumrules. But as I think that my psot is relevant to the topic I hopefully might not consider to a necroposter.

In other forums, posting in old topics is more bewished than constantly creating new ones. This makes a forum unreadable.

The readme says:

take off as you would with the stock Delta-Glider - throttle up and it rotates around 130m/s...
roll back gently, so to avoid a tail-strike*

But the Liner will not rotate, even not if I am already at V200. The wings are reacting on my Joystick inputs, but it wont rotate nontheless. Any Ideas on this?