Project Here goes nothing: The Delta-StarLiner G42

[Moach]

Wouldn't it be easier to launch launch into the correct heading for that inclination from the start?

I know the reason it doesn't happen with multistage vehicles like the shuttle, is because flightplans have to be over open ocean, so the stages (hopefully) don't kill anyone and in the case of the shuttle so that the boosters don't turn to scrap metal on impact. That's why polar launches with STS were either going to be from Vandenburg, or via a dog-leg over the Atlantic from KSC (which would have required 5-segment boosters).

The G42 is an SSTO (unless you're carrying external tanks), so I don't see why it would be necessary to avoid flying over land... other than the possibility of debris falling onto populated areas during a crash, but in that case you have other problems... :uhh:

Then again, launching to a polar orbit will reduce your payload capacity, and external tanks could improve that. But then you'd need to launch over water again...

the G42 is meant to be a very flexible launch system... it's proposal is to make spaceflight accessible, so it's designed to allow for many different ascent configurations, including options that would be unecessary if taking off from an "optimal" location :thumbup:

so yeah, it WOULD be better to launch straight to the correct heading, but at times, that's not really possible - as is the case for KSC to Moon operations (the G42 can't really reach the moon, but it must be able to service vessels in orbit that can)

 

[Moach]

today i spend a large portion of my day on the hunt for texture-worthy images... (kudos to the guys who tend to our servers and their utter failure in opening a measly service port)

i came up with a lot of good stuff in the end... :lol: now it's photoshop and the unwrapping thing all the way


next up, i'm gonna start building the "alternate VCs" - yep, 'cause just one is not enough :thumbup:, first in line (and also the most complex) is the bay operations console....

there you should find an mfd for docking, and the UCGO screen... there will also be a switch that enables the "overhead RCS mode", that makes flying "up" towards the docking port a lot more "straightforward" :thumbup:

perhaps another mfd for camera and whatnot.... :hmm: and some more controls for the airlock and bay doors...


oh yes... lots of stuff - this is gonna be so cool (i hope :shifty

 

[jaybtlr]

nice to see its getting along well

 

[Moach]

just a heads-up - new versions are gonna be compiled under the Orbiiter2010-P1 SDK (which according to Martin, is a bit different).... so check you have the latest version as to avoid any problems :thumbup:

 

[GuiConteDGIV2X]

And the transonic effect and others visual stuffs? any updates?

 

[Moach]

well... the engines ascent simulation is pretty much covered... but still no gauges working....

other than that i've been low on able time to get any real progress going... i've done some changes here and there, but nothing worth mentioning yet


don't worry, this project is very much alive :thumbup:


i still wanna have voice callouts when your reach decisive airspeed marks and stuff like that... i wish i had more free time, really :huh:... but oh well, we do what we can :hmm:

 

[GuiConteDGIV2X]

And the heat effects on the ship?

 

[Moach]

i haven't gotten that far yet... i will, don't worry... i was thinking of going that "red hull" effect you see on the XR2... (although i'm not really sure how one can achieve it just yet)

but once i get that figured out, i mmight as well apply the same principle to "light" the inside of the engine exhausts (and the intakes, during scram flight)

too bad Orbiter still doesn't support alpha-channel textures.... we could get some neat effects on with that :hmm:

 

[GuiConteDGIV2X]

I have a idea:when heat is lower than 1000 C you use a heat effect like the DGIV-2 and up than 1000 C the yellow hull start to become red(XR2).Some parts will be yellow cuz the lower temperature and other parts like the nosecone will be red cuz the higher temperature
or vice-versa and can you make a turbo thrust like the DGIV-2?

 

[Moach]

i'm starting to think i really should download the DGIV-2 :rofl: :hmm:


but you're thinking pretty much the same as i am... parts of the hull do heat up more than others.... this should be visible in the red-out effect


as for the thrusters, i reckon i'll have to do something about those flame textures... the default ones are clipping wildly through the mesh, and that's not really a nice thing to look at


but i'll se into that when i get to it... right now, i have other things at hand, such as the bay-facing controls and all :thumbup:


but keep thinking! it's always good to have more brains bringing ideas aboard

 

[GuiConteDGIV2X]

i think i will send you a pic

And i don t know if the mcwgogs contrail textures add-on work in Orbite 2010 P1 i still don t downloaded it.I will wait the version update 2010 -->2010 P1 on baixaki. i downloaded the 7-zip.

 

[River Crab]

I have a idea:when heat is lower than 1000 C you use a heat effect like the DGIV-2 and up than 1000 C the yellow hull start to become red(XR2).Some parts will be yellow cuz the lower temperature and other parts like the nosecone will be red cuz the higher temperature
or vice-versa and can you make a turbo thrust like the DGIV-2?

I'm not sure if this is possible. IIRC, Coolhand (God of Good Graphics) has said that Orbiter (this was 2006p1) only supports one texture layer with changing alpha at runtime per vessel. So you can have reentry heating effect layer, but not separate layers of it for different parts of the hull. You might be able to get around this somehow, but it would probably be hard no matter what.
I'm not 100% sure about any developing advice I'm giving, so you (as in Moach) might want to take that with a grain of salt.

Also, this feature request thing is starting to become like a list of characters that people want in Super Smash Brothers X (Brawl).
(Yes, I'm a hypocrite, but that was a long time ago.)
Don't expect Megaman and Master Chief, that's just ridiculous. This is a product that must be finished at some point. If enough people agree, you could get Snake, and if you're lucky, you just MIGHT get Sonic, but that would be a miracle.
I guess they would say,
"Glad you're excited to see it, and thanks for all the comments on what you would like to see. We will try to do what we think is best, after all, we're making this for you guys."

Either way, I'm fine with Zero Suit Samus. Just finish it so we can play it! :tiphat:

 

[Moach]

I'm not sure if this is possible. IIRC, Coolhand (God of Good Graphics) has said that Orbiter (this was 2006p1) only supports one texture layer with changing alpha at runtime per vessel. So you can have reentry heating effect layer, but not separate layers of it for different parts of the hull. You might be able to get around this somehow, but it would probably be hard no matter what.

Orbiter does have some hard limitations in the texturing department - it being based on dx7 and all....

so one must remember the games of back in the day when dx7 was all we had, and learn the solutions they would employ back then...

one example that comes to mind is the glorious Falcon 4.0... it had a really nice looking afterburner effect, where you could see the inside of the exhaust turn red.... that was no custom shader, nor was it an alpha-blended layer - it was a bunch of different bitmaps that were switched over according to the throttle settings :lol: - quite ingenious, right?


anywas... that aside - i've succesfully managed to have the TAB key toggle between the cockpit and the bay operator console behind the cabin. :thumbup:
and yep, this does include switching between two different cabin meshes - one which you already know so well, and another which focuses on the bay-facing console...

as a programmer, i worry a lot about the efficiency of my 3d models :lol:

so by alternating the cabin mesh, we can have both stations modelled in high res without needlessly imposing a poly-count overhead


now... texturing that thing is proving quite a hurdle... i spent a large portion of yesterday just unwrapping and photoshoping.... it looks good in the end, so i think it's worth the trouble
but i'm still not done... lots of surfaces to cover... and i'm still not done with the modelling...


another thing i discovered, Orbiter will render the cockpit in front of ANYTHING... it's a separate layer, as i imagined - so i wasn't really too surprised when the back of the bay showed up in FRONT of the port when i was docked to the ISS :lol:

i think there's a separate group for rendering that type of thing... if not, i'll have to go McGuyver-mode again.....

i'd post pics, but for one, i'm not really done modelling, and seconds, i don't have the model here right now, as i'm laptop-bound at this time


cheers!

 

[GuiConteDGIV2X]

i am thinking in a think like this:

Red:could be the medium or hottest part during reentry
Yellow:could be medium,coolest part
White(If it is possible):The hottest part.

 

[garyw]

That's an IR photo of an actual shuttle entry, the yellow is the hottest part of the shuttle, i.e. the nose, the wing leading edges and the body flap.

 

[River Crab]

I think the heating might look notably different for the G42, with its unconventional reentry. A bit more towards the nose/leading edges, and less on the bottom, I guess. Not sure about reentry profile yet.
As for the implementation, how does the high AoA wing vapour on the DGIV work? I just remembered that effect exists.

 

[Moach]

i think those AoA vapours are done with particles.... but it's hard getting it to look right that way... :hmm:

i'll have a go in that area when the time comes... perhaps i can have some neat effects happening...

but one thing at a time, shall we? i still have tons of modelling and texturing to do on the cabin before commiting to anything else

 

[GuiConteDGIV2X]

River Crab
You can see the wing vapour effect when you pitch at high Angle of attack

 

[NuttyPro67]

Hey Moach, just read through this ENTIRE thread, downloaded your most recent WIP and all I have to say is WOW. I can't wait until you have a fully working cockpit! You had actually BEAT me to my own idea! A tailless SSTO! Seems like the drag and weight penalty from the vertical stabilizers could really be removed completely, especially with a fly by wire system! (You need to move to down my street)

You seem to be very concerned with accuracy so allow me to interject with my very unique experience. I noticed when your ship "yaws" it doesn't actually cause much, if any, effect in the yaw direction the airplane is traveling. This is not accurate!

I have scratch built, flown, and tested a blended wing body design (flying wing basically) with split control surfaces to act as a rudder. When you apply the split control surfaces for yawing its like sticking a single ore out the side of a moving canoe. While not as effective as a rudder, it will still steer the boat.

I have some footage that should really help you see how the split brakerons effect the yaw of a airplane. [ame="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xc1inz_blended-wing-body"]Dailymotion - Blended Wing Body - a Tech & Science video@@AMEPARAM@@http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/video@@AMEPARAM@@video[/ame]
Watch especially around 1:50 when I use the yaw to bank the plane around. The banking is VERY shallow and only there to keep the banking STABLE, the yaw effect of the split control surfaces is very effective and causes ZERO roll coupling when you apply the yaw, which is just beautiful.

Thanks and I can't wait to see this finished!

 

[Zachstar]

That is an amazing build man! Congrats!