Project Here goes nothing: The Delta-StarLiner G42

[Moach]

presenting: The G42 Starliner

main features:

- custom DLL for advanced features
- fully operational VC with 3 MFDs
- aft cabin and bay-facing console
- realistic (although futuristic) engine and flight models
- cargo bay operations
- operatable windshield visor
- whatever else i might still come up with :thumbup:


read on for a "historic" development background - or jump on to the last page for the lastest updates

get your flyable WIP* versions HERE


*WIP = work-in-progress, which means many features are not yet available

//////////////////////////// ORIGINAL FIRST POST //////////////////////////////////

yeah, i decided to try my hand at making space-craft... i´m currently taking a course on the obscure wizardry that is C++ :stirpot:, and have cooked up a rather strong background on general programming logic, specially for games...:compbash2:

graduating game-design college also helps, too...


but this is Orbiter... and i wanna try and make me a ship...:cook:

i´ve always like the delta-glider, but i have some constructive criticism on it´s design that i though i could address with a new variant of it...

so without further ado:

The Delta-StarLiner G42! (or what i have so far)

It´s a bit of a "DG on Steroids" kinda thing... i always thought that the DG was too small to have such extensive range... and also, there´s not really a way to take off without having to blast the rocket engines...

so i thought of a solution:

the Delta-StarLiner would have 3 sets of engines, the two main rocket engines, the scram-jets and an aditional quartet of conventional turbines to get it up in the air and back on the runway like an airplane...

i thought this would be a nice way to go for a ship that´s capable of performing a whole orbital flight, from takeoff to landing on it´s own merit, (no dropping parts mid-flight)

or, maybe a couple of optional SRB´s to get it from turbine-cruise to scram speed... optional tho... for less fuel-critical trips, it could very well use the rocket engines

the main advantage, is that with the conventional engines, the rockets only have to be fired when the ship is already at FL600 going Mach 1+...
this also makes for a broader launch window, since you can align your orbital planes in regular flight, before jumping to orbit

coming back in after reentry, could also benefit from having some leftover fuel from takeoff for the turbines, a powered descent is a luxury that space-men have yet to enjoy

the model is being done in 3ds Max, you may recognize the fore section... it is the front of the Delta-Glider, i cut it and attached it there (always liked that cockpit)

i also plan to do some overhauling in the cockpit... a third MFD is often missed, and we could use some more elaborate displays and controls...


oh well... let´s wee how far i can take this... it´s not like it´s rocket science... oh, wait...

 

[jedidia]

looking great so far, nice project. From an engineering point of view, the additional ram-jets might be a bit of a cumberance, though. I mean, they're a lot of dead weight for at least 90% of the trip...

But it might actually be more realistic to make evereything weight a bit less than overpowering the engines as was the case so far.

 

[Notebook]

Nice model, it would help some of us(me), if you gave some tuition on the modelling in Max...

N.

 

[Moach]

Jed´s got a good point... i was wondering what could be a better altrernative regarding the scramjets..

on one hand, they impose a weight overhead.... but on the other, is that overhead larger than that of the fuel needed to go from cruise to orbit on the rockets alone?

remembering that scram-jets are not much more than hollow tubes, so their power-to-weight ratio is enormously high... and they could use the same fuel source as the conventional turbines (and still be somewhat realistic)

but, indeed, they are only used in about 10% of the trip... so their existance is discussable...


i wanna make a realistic, "possible" ship.... this project is very open for suggestions, so feel free to chip in anytime

 

[jedidia]

but, indeed, they are only used in about 10% of the trip... so their existance is discussable...

the Scram-jets are perfectly plausible. It's the Ram-jets (what you called conventional turbines) that are on the questionable side. You reach Scram-jet speed relatively fast using the rocket engines, so that the carrying of conventional ram-jets won't give you much of a fuel advantage at take-off. They would of course shine like a beacon in the night when it comes to landing (since they would make landing so much more easy), but until they are really used they will have eaten up a lot of fuel simply by their weight, so I don't think any spacecraft of the near to middle future will be able to afford the luxury of carrying them around.

 

[n72.75]

Very nice model, I like it.

 

[Moach]

yes, that was a concern i had.... turbines are indeed heavy, but they allow extended maneuverability on takeoff which allows the craft to launch for a rendezvous with a station with a much broader window...

this also allows launching from a base outside the orbital path of the destination, and then simply fly to an intercept point where you´d start the orbital jump procedure
thus being able to launch with zero relative inclination from anywhere in the world...


yes they take a toll on weight capacity, perhaps for long flights, such as to the moon, the engines get removed and extra fuel tanks come in, and the craft flies piggyback on something until the orbit insertion point

but as a LEO shuttle, the engines kinda make sense, since they would reduce the operation costs to a considerable extent


the purpose of this ship is to make space travel something more accessible and not so a big deal... so having it be self-sufficient is a key factor...


a viable (yet made-up) alternative, would be a hybrid rocket engine, the ram inlets would provide O2 for them while in atmospheric flight, allowing the ship to carry more liquid fuel, and switch to the internal O2 supply only when air is no longer available...

or smaller lightweight turbines could generate just enough compression for a large afterburner system, which doubles as a full-range rocket engine... dunno, alternatives....

quite an enjoyable stroll along the fine line between engineering and sci-fi

anyone´s got more brilliant ideas?

---------- Post added at 03:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:00 PM ----------

here´s a pic of it without the ram-jets....

not sure if it looks as cool, tho... more realistic, maybe... :hmm:

i figure the rockets could be used just as well to get it off the ground into scram speed...

 

[Loru]

SABRE Engine - I think it is a good alternative for having jet turbines and rocket engines separately.

 

[Moach]

i was just about to post the exact same thing!

wikipedia for the win! LOL :rofl:


now, here´s a winner combination, the SABRE engines take the craft from ground to mach 5, which according to the all-wise-wiki, is the entry speed for scramjet operation... which then produces, enough delta-v to reach mach 16~17, about half of orbital speed, only then, need the SABREs go rocket-mode and get it up the rest of the way

if the ship doesn´t melt during scram-flight we will have reached orbit with immense efficiency and unmatched flightplan flexiblity

but since our ship is to be made of the same futuristic very light and heat resistant alloys used in the Delta-Glider, we have a winner!

 

[cinder1992]

Good lord, that thing is BEAUTIFUL! Keep up the good work!

Just a recommendation, the rockets look a tad underpowered, maybe replace them with an Aerospike engine?

 

[clickypens]

SABREs and Aerospikes? Good lord, this is going to be my favorite ship ever! That model is fantastic, I hope you can keep it up on the coding, it's looking very promising.

 

[MeDiCS]

Very cool indeed :thumbup:.

But, what about cargo?

 

[Moach]

yep, there´s a nice cargo bay just behind the cabin... not modeled yet... but it´s there

now... how would an aerospike-SABRE hybrid nozzle look like? i can´t even imagine this glorious monstrocity... we have to do it, tho...:hail: so much power!

---------- Post added at 06:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:01 PM ----------

Ok, now it´s there...

here´s the cargo bay...

now, you think the SABRE engines would have their own exhausts or would they be a hybrid with the aerospike nozzles?

 

[Keatah]

nice. Lots of room to move around during those long voyages.

 

[Andy44]

If you're using DeltaGlider-tech rocket engines than all the airbreathing technology is a waste, since the specific impulse of the rockets is greater than that of the scramjets on the DG-S.

If you're going for a more realistic rocket engine, though, some of this exotic air-breathing tech may be worth the extra mass.

The main reason the Space Shuttle doesn't have air-breathers in real life is because it was determined that it's actually easier to land a gliding airplane than it is to try to land a multi-engine jet in a conventional 3 deg glideslope, so they just decided to omit the extra engine and tank mass and complicated machinery.

 

[Moach]

yeah, i´m going for more realistic than the DG, that´s the whole point... the DG is far too overpowered and extraordinarily fuel-efficient

the star-liner is designed to fly the high stratosphere relying mostly on it´s lift, rather than muscle it out with thrust, thus the air-breathers make some more sense...

this helps to minimize the amount of liquidO2 needed... a DG-like craft would burn O2 from it´s internal tanks from wheels up all the way to orbit, quite a waste, since there´s plenty of that around the ship for as long as there´s air


so, when in atomespheric flight, the star-liner chugs air from the upper inlets, cools it and feeds it pressurized from the turbines into the aerospikes for final combustion which generates tons of thrust (but not impossibly high, like the DG)

the pre-coolers and shock gates on the inlets ensure maximum efficiency of the turbines all the way up to mach 5...

then the scramjets go into action, and propel us to half of orbital speed... then the aerospikes fire again, this time on internal liquid O2


after reentry, whatever´s left of fuel, if any, can be used for a powered descent


and i imagine the turbo-rocket engines would sound like the utmost tower of all that is awesome in this earth and near systems :headbang:

 

[jedidia]

a viable (yet made-up) alternative, would be a hybrid rocket engine, the ram inlets would provide O2 for them while in atmospheric flight, allowing the ship to carry more liquid fuel, and switch to the internal O2 supply only when air is no longer available...

sounds a lot like the skylon, which is actually being developed currently, so I'd say that's a great otpion.

 

[Notebook]

Moach, I presume you have seen these?

http://www.reactionengines.co.uk/
animation here:
http://www.reactionengines.co.uk/skylon_ops_anim.html

and a Orbiter version:
[ame="http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=2219"]HOTOL v1.02[/ame]

N.

 

[Chub777]

Nice project there. I think it would be better if you have an EVA port on the top (like the XR5). Also the cockpit looks small for something that big...

And yes, SCRAMs are dead weight for most of the flight. It would be hard to use SCRAMs or ramjets during take-off. Maybe some JATO thrusters would be put to good use. They're light enough and can put that big hunk of DG on steroids to 500 metres a second in less than the length of a runway.

 

[Izack]

That is looking GOOD, Moach!
A giant Deltaglider with nicer curves!
And this talk of aerospikes and SABREs is getting me excited, too. A nice wide linear aerospike would complete the ship's futuristic appearance.
A combination SABRE/aerospike wouldn't be too hard to pull off. The exhaust method shouldn't have too much effect on the type of engine, so long as it's still a rocket.