Vessel Finishing what stevecast Started

[Luke Reichelt]

I don't think you need to convert SC3- 4, IIRC if SC4 is installed properly it should catch the others.
Tochdown points (+attach.) is sadlly the reason SC is out. I think you can use shipedit (comes with orbiter) bounding box to find the points, it's been a while, suggest checking the SC doc.

Unfortunately, Orbiter 2010 doesn't include the Ship Edit function, so there's not much I can do there.

 

[Buck Rogers]

Shipedit is in Orb2010, orbitersdk/utils, I remember having to eyeball it anyway, the util helps you get in the general ballpark quicker (as long as the model isn't totally off scale one can guestimate the first go, first value: left/right, second: up/down, forward/back)

 

[Luke Reichelt]

Shipedit is in Orb2010, orbitersdk/utils, I remember having to eyeball it anyway, the util helps you get in the general ballpark quicker (as long as the model isn't totally off scale one can guestimate the first go, first value: left/right, second: up/down, forward/back)

Unfortunately, it seems my copy of said utility refuses to work properly, as whenever I open it I get an error message saying that its side-by-side configuration is incorrect.

 

[Buck Rogers]

oh, that's a new one for me, never heard of that before? Works on win10 (and previous).

 

[Luke Reichelt]

You were right about the Morshin, by the way - both the fighter and flyer are too big to fit into the bays. Either the mesh needs to be resized or the vessel's classification as a carrier is incorrect.

Speaking of which, according to the official specifications, the Sharlin is closer to 1,600 meters in length. Accordingly, you'll have to adjust that line in the vessel's configuration file.

 

[Urwumpe]

You were right about the Morshin, by the way - both the fighter and flyer are too big to fit into the bays. Either the mesh needs to be resized or the vessel's classification as a carrier is incorrect.

The Morshin is definitly a carrier in "Babylon 5 Wars: Ships of the Fleet", but also just a "heavy combat vessel", in about the same weight and size class as the EA Artemis. It can carry 48 fighters, which is REALLY a lot, the EA Avenger Heavy Carrier can fit the same, but is one size class larger and, by the ramming factor in the tabletop rules, must be approximately twice as massive. So, yes, it MUST be small.

From the fluff text: "Among the small of the Minbari ships, this was designated solely as a fighter delivery system, [...]"

 

[Luke Reichelt]

The Morshin is definitly a carrier in "Babylon 5 Wars: Ships of the Fleet", but also just a "heavy combat vessel", in about the same weight and size class as the EA Artemis. It can carry 48 fighters, which is REALLY a lot, the EA Avenger Heavy Carrier can fit the same, but is one size class larger and, by the ramming factor in the tabletop rules, must be approximately twice as massive. So, yes, it MUST be small.

From the fluff text: "Among the small of the Minbari ships, this was designated solely as a fighter delivery system, [...]"

About that - I was using an older version of the fighter, hence the size issue. Either way, the Morshin should include some docking ports for said fighters

 

[Luke Reichelt]

Seeing as my copy of Ship Edit refuses to work properly, could you maybe help me out with the landing points?

 

[Buck Rogers]

The fighters don't have gear so I passed on the touchdown points, also I can't get them to work in basic .cfgs ( I think the docs aren't actual)
They land, don't flip over, but sink a bit. You can try in SC4, here's a starting point: 0 -8.3 16 -8 -7.6 -13 8 -7.6 -13

All specs are made up, I did research, but info scarce and variable, most important size, for the mesh, all others are just to be functional.

 

[Urwumpe]

The fighters don't have gear so I passed on the touchdown points, also I can't get them to work in basic .cfgs ( I think the docs aren't actual)
They land, don't flip over, but sink a bit. You can try in SC4, here's a starting point: 0 -8.3 16 -8 -7.6 -13 8 -7.6 -13

All specs are made up, I did research, but info scarce and variable, most important size, for the mesh, all others are just to be functional.

I can state the table top game stats, but these only make sense in the context of the table top and can only give relative guidance, like: Accelerates 17% faster as the EA Starfury. Also, the different propulsion characteristics depend on the implementation.

 

[Buck Rogers]

Relative is a start! if one can put together something "relatively" consistant it does add to general immersion.

The Sharlin is exactly 1600m long, and 1960m tall! the cfg. size is only approx., effects clipping etc.

The Morshin is 658m, if "accur." I can add 2 docks to launch support vehicles

 

[Urwumpe]

So lets start with the thrust values, they are the "simplest" to translate. About the rules, you have to include that they are VERY complex and permit a lot of tweaking during a game. For example, you can spend energy from shutdown systems to increase the maximum propulsion power that can be used by the thrusters. For example, if we just look at the prograde motion, all values in points, just the four major younger races in the universe for comparison:

	Omega Destroyer (Alpha Model)	Sharlin War Cruiser	Primus Battlecruiser	G'Quan Heavy Cruiser
Engine Rating	8	12	10	12
Maximum Prograde Thrust	8	12	10	12
Acceleration Cost	3	5	3	3
Maximum speed change	2.667	2.4	3.333	4
Ramming Factor	380	440	260	330
Fwd./Aft Defense	16 (12)	15	16	15
Stb./Port Defense	18 (14)	19	17	17

As you see, you have only VERY coarse indications of the mass. The engine power gets diverted, if you want to maneuver, for example turning (changing the orientation AND your velocity vector) or pivoting (changing the orientation without changing the velocity vector) Full Newtonian flight is NOT part of the standard rules. The nose should usually point where you want to fly, not pointing in the same direction can prevent you from maneuvering.

I have included the ramming factor and the approx. cross section/defense values. The ramming factor is finer hint at the masses, but also includes shape, as you notice when comparing Sharlin and Omega. The defense values are scaled to a D20, and not really accurate, but give you a hint about the relative size until the maximum of 20 is reached. The values in brackets for the Omega are the defense values including the ECM capability of the Interceptor PDCs.

Just tell me if you can work with that.

If I have a full backup on my external HDD, I can also send you a larger ZIP file with most of the record sheets for the game as "decentral backup".

 

[Buck Rogers]

@ Luke Reichelt has experience with the Babylon universe ingame, with this info maybe one can put these vessels into their right context (or general ballpark)

 

[Luke Reichelt]

Relative is a start! if one can put together something "relatively" consistant it does add to general immersion.

The Sharlin is exactly 1600m long, and 1960m tall! the cfg. size is only approx., effects clipping etc.

The Morshin is 658m, if "accur." I can add 2 docks to launch support vehicles

As I said, all you really need to do there is change that one line in the config file, nothing more.

 

[Buck Rogers]

size in .cfg is the radius of the object and has little effect accept on camera cuttoff (for realistic reentry/atmos. if all other stats are correct)
Here it's a little small so you can probably see inside, will extend to 800m.

Is the Morshin correct?

Can you work with @Urwumpe's data?

 

[Luke Reichelt]

size in .cfg is the radius of the object and has little effect accept on camera cuttoff (for realistic reentry/atmos. if all other stats are correct)
Here it's a little small so you can probably see inside, will extend to 800m.

Is the Morshin correct?

Can you work with @Urwumpe's data?

The Morshin's size is correct, it could just use some docking ports for the fighters (which need docking ports themselves.)

Speaking of which, now that I've got the landing points for the fighter, could you provide me with the points for the other vessels (particularly the flyer)?

 

[Buck Rogers]

particularly the flyer

Those were the points for the flyer?, probably ok for both, best to eyeball it. (did they work in SC4 Orb2010?)

 

[Luke Reichelt]

Those were the points for the flyer?, probably ok for both, best to eyeball it. (did they work in SC4 Orb2010?)

Yes, they work, though for Orbiter 2010 I have to use spacecraft3 instead.

 

[Luke Reichelt]

So, what are the landing points for the flyer? And while you're at it, do you also have the docking points for the fighter and the Morshin?

 

[Buck Rogers]

The points you have are for the flyer, might fit the fighter too (manual adjustment is nearly always needed anyway)
The rest is on the to-do list (I did a preliminary check and the bays where 4m off the centerline which seems rather small!).
When specs, docs, etc. come together I'll make an update or release.