Centaur G/G Prime High Energy Upper Stage

[MaverickSawyer]

Currently I'm not sure if it is the entire documents that are NO-GO or just certain sections/pages. If i is just certain sections/pages that makes them off-limits, I think maybe I could get the abbreviated documents without the sensitive pages.

I'm no export in export control laws, so I'm not sure if that approach could work.

If' it's proprietary info, or it's been used for DOD missions, it's probably beyond even my access. If it's just export restrictions, though, I need to do some research.

 

[Urwumpe]

Probably any information that may pertain to DOD missions is no go.

Likely. But there are not many such missions in the Centaur-G history.

EDIT: Also, the information about the RL-10 successor engine is free, but the Centaur-G as whole is not? That makes little sense. I suspect it is an avionics thing, and in that case, things can get complex.

 

[DaveS]

Well, the one at GRC I'm in contact with is the GRC Export Administrator, Agreements Manager. I have asked if a request of review could be forwarded to someone at GRC that could make a decision on the actual status of the documents as well if it is just certain sections/pages that makes them NO-GO.

Well, I guess this ends the documents:

I am the export administrator at NASA Glenn. I am the individual empowered to make export control decisions at NASA Glenn. As I stated in my earlier e-mail, I am not making any changes to the document in question. Providing such information may constitute a defense service under the ITAR. Absent any international agreement, contract, MOU, etc., NASA will not provide the information.

 

[MaverickSawyer]

Well, that tears it. Bummer.

---------- Post added at 12:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:09 PM ----------

I suspect it is an avionics thing, and in that case, things can get complex.

That's got to be it. Just ask for whatever non-restricted info you can get, if there is any.

 

[Urwumpe]

Well, I guess this ends the documents:

Ok, so he is personally opposed to it. We have to respect this.

Maybe his successor has a better personal interpretation of his duty.

 

[DaveS]

Ok, so he is personally opposed to it. We have to respect this.

Maybe his successor has a better personal interpretation of his duty.

Yes. Any other ideas?

 

[MaverickSawyer]

What are you looking for, in particular? My dad works at Aerojet Sacramento, so he may have some resources I can utilize...

 

[Urwumpe]

Yes. Any other ideas?

I could found a German defense technology company with the required licenses (takes about 75,000 Euro and 6-12 months) and issue a formal request for a defense service.

Otherwise, I see little legal ways to get past this. Anonymous whistleblowing would work, but we are talking about the USA in that case. Contrary to German laws, which clearly state that the government has no right of privacy, the US laws are pretty clearly in the opposite direction.

Since he called it a defense service, a US citizen would only have slightly higher chances getting the documents, and would likely die a thousand nasty deaths, if he publishes it against the legal WMDs that will come with the documents.

There is also the Freedom of Information Act, but I doubt it can impose enough torque there.

 

[MaverickSawyer]

Urwumpe's right. I couldn't get them and then post them. I would end up breaking rocks at Ft. Leavenworth...

 

[DaveS]

What are you looking for, in particular? My dad works at Aerojet Sacramento, so he may have some resources I can utilize...

See if maybe has any contacts that has documents on the Centaur Integrated Support System(CISS) and the orbiter control panels for the Centaur. This might be a bit hard since Aerojet only supplied the Rocket Engine Modules(REMs) for the Centaur. The rest was manufactured by General Dynamics(GD) Convair Division in San Diego.

 

[MaverickSawyer]

If the engines are RL-10s, those are made by Rocketdyne, one of two mortal enemies of Aerojet... :lol:

 

[Urwumpe]

If the engines are RL-10s, those are made by Rocketdyne, one of two mortal enemies of Aerojet... :lol:

What is the other?

Doesn't Aerojet produce the new batch of NK-33 engines?

 

[DaveS]

Urwumpe's right. I couldn't get them and then post them. I would end up breaking rocks at Ft. Leavenworth...

Unfortunately this is true for the moment. It would take a revision of existing export control laws for use to get these documents.

 

[MaverickSawyer]

ATK. And no, they didn't produce them, they're just overhauling them. My dad was drooling over them. :lol: They wanted to find out what went wrong with the test stand fire, and he said "Give me a plasma cutter and an hour in the corner away from the union workers, and I'll have it apart!"
:rofl:

 

[DaveS]

If the engines are RL-10s, those are made by Rocketdyne, one of two mortal enemies of Aerojet... :lol:

Actually, RL-xx engines are(were) made by then Pratt&Whitney(now Pratt&Whitney Rocketdyne).

Rocketdyne engines use the RS designator except for the F-1, J-2 and H-1.

 

[MaverickSawyer]

point.

 

[Urwumpe]

ATK. And no, they didn't produce them, they're just overhauling them. My dad was drooling over them. :lol: They wanted to find out what went wrong with the test stand fire, and he said "Give me a plasma cutter and an hour in the corner away from the union workers, and I'll have it apart!"
:rofl:

Your Dad should bring a huge plasma cutter in that case, despite all chances to do it, even the German engineers failed to find out which technology makes the engines survive an oxygen-rich pre-burner. :lol:

 

[MaverickSawyer]

no, union won that one. Engineers cannot lay hands on hardware at all.

 

[Urwumpe]

no, union won that one. Engineers cannot lay hands on hardware at all.

They should not go to Germany with that attitude. Heck, I already violated so many union safety regulations in my short career, I could write a book about it. Luckily, union people rarely work overtime.

Anyway, I'll look if there is any way to start a process to deregulate the documents. Maybe we can even make the export regulations admin give us the docs with a smile on his face.

 

[MaverickSawyer]

:lol: yeah, he does lots of overtime...