Centaur G/G Prime High Energy Upper Stage

[DaveS]

Checked in a Challenger texture has the relevant modifications on the midbody:

 

[n0mad23]

You guys probably want to dl this one: Taming Liquid Hydrogen: The Centaur Upper Stage Rocket 1958-2002 (308 pgs). http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4230.pdf

 

[DaveS]

Any progress on the modules for the Centaurs and the CISS?

 

[SiameseCat]

I've been working on fixing the panel issues and a bug in the Orbit DAP. I haven't started on the Centaur stuff yet. I'm also wondering if there's any point in trying to implement the Centaur panel now, since we might wind up rewriting it in a year when we get pictures of the real panel.

 

[Urwumpe]

I've been working on fixing the panel issues and a bug in the Orbit DAP. I haven't started on the Centaur stuff yet. I'm also wondering if there's any point in trying to implement the Centaur panel now, since we might wind up rewriting it in a year when we get pictures of the real panel.

If I deliver you a generic panel class that can be scripted by text files, would that be a reason to reconsider?

I don't have it yet, but technically speaking, we are just a tiny lot of hard coded logic away from such a general panel code. With such general panels, we could at least leave the hard work to the mesh developers that work too fast for us code benders, and slow them down a bit.

 

[DaveS]

I'm also wondering if there's any point in trying to implement the Centaur panel now, since we might wind up rewriting it in a year when we get pictures of the real panel.

I simply don't know where we'll get those images from. I have tried both KSC and JSC with no luck. And the only other good source I'm aware of it has been a NO-GO for a good half-year now.

 

[Urwumpe]

I simply don't know where we'll get those images from. I have tried both KSC and JSC with no luck. And the only other good source I'm aware of it has been a NO-GO for a good half-year now.

Did you already try by email?

 

[DaveS]

If I deliver you a generic panel class that can be scripted by text files, would that be a reason to reconsider?

Well, Radu094 once made an SDK like that complete with systems and everything. It's dated but I think we should be able to get permission to use it in adapted and restored form: [ame="http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=1898"]Systems & Panel SDK 1.70[/ame]

---------- Post added at 09:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:35 PM ----------

Did you already try by email?

You mean KSC/JSC or the source for the Centaur manual?

 

[Urwumpe]

Well, Radu094 once made an SDK like that complete with systems and everything. It's dated but I think we should be able to get permission to use it in adapted and restored form: Systems & Panel SDK 1.70

would be very hard to integrate into SSU, since we do pretty much everything different. I think moving to something that does less than what we already do is not an option.

You mean KSC/JSC or the source for the Centaur manual?

All three.

 

[DaveS]

All three.

KSC and JSC, yes. The source, no. I'll give it a shot.

 

[Urwumpe]

KSC and JSC, yes. The source, no. I'll give it a shot.

OK, that is good. Then you did at least try the easy ways already. I wasn't sure if you already try it by email.

Maybe there is another path open for us... but I would need help there to get the information. There are many NASA memos around from that time, maybe there is information about who worked on the Centaur and had which role there. I would need some keywords about the management terms and project abbreviations then I can start searching.

With the people and project structure found, maybe we can then find names. I doubt that no engineer of the project would be for having his project come alive in a simulation. And a single one might be enough.

 

[SiameseCat]

If I deliver you a generic panel class that can be scripted by text files, would that be a reason to reconsider?

I don't have it yet, but technically speaking, we are just a tiny lot of hard coded logic away from such a general panel code. With such general panels, we could at least leave the hard work to the mesh developers that work too fast for us code benders, and slow them down a bit.

I hadn't thought about that, but that's a good idea. I'm not sure how you're planning to do it, but I was thinking we could use JSON to store the switch data, etc. and change the panel class to load this from the text files.

 

[Urwumpe]

I hadn't thought about that, but that's a good idea. I'm not sure how you're planning to do it, but I was thinking we could use JSON to store the switch data, etc. and change the panel class to load this from the text files.

You are really reading my mind. I am a big big fan of JSON already. :lol:

Especially, making Orbiter add-ons with JSONCPP support is really easy.

I had planned something like that already in the first draft of the VC classes, but kicked it out for a earlier working version. Not with JSON, I learned it later, but the general idea of having ideally no need for hardcoded panels anymore.

I would just change some small details with JSON there... no longer numerical identifiers, but strings for identifying discrete line connections.

 

[DaveS]

OK, that is good. Then you did at least try the easy ways already. I wasn't sure if you already try it by email.

Maybe there is another path open for us... but I would need help there to get the information. There are many NASA memos around from that time, maybe there is information about who worked on the Centaur and had which role there. I would need some keywords about the management terms and project abbreviations then I can start searching.

With the people and project structure found, maybe we can then find names. I doubt that no engineer of the project would be for having his project come alive in a simulation. And a single one might be enough.

Managed to get in contact with GRC about the Shuttle/Centaur documents and due to export control laws, they're NO-GO.

 

[MaverickSawyer]

Hmm, perhaps I can get them for you, and just feed you the relevant non-restricted information?

 

[DaveS]

Hmm, perhaps I can get them for you, and just feed you the relevant non-restricted information?

Currently I'm not sure if it is the entire documents that are NO-GO or just certain sections/pages. If i is just certain sections/pages that makes them off-limits, I think maybe I could get the abbreviated documents without the sensitive pages.

I'm no export in export control laws, so I'm not sure if that approach could work.

 

[Urwumpe]

Managed to get in contact with GRC about the Shuttle/Centaur documents and due to export control laws, they're NO-GO.

Aha. All of them? Also the files in question are nearly 30 years old now, I have some doubts about export control laws applying to non-military technology even in that context.

EDIT: This is the NASA perspective of export control, I am not sure about all the legalese, but I suspect it isn't as easy as GRC puts it.

http://oiir.hq.nasa.gov/nasaecp/index.html

EDIT: Looks like ITAR applies in that case, which is pretty anal from my perspective.

 

[DaveS]

Aha. All of them? Also the files in question are nearly 30 years old now, I have some doubts about export control laws applying to non-military technology even in that context.

Well, the one at GRC I'm in contact with is the GRC Export Administrator, Agreements Manager. I have asked if a request of review could be forwarded to someone at GRC that could make a decision on the actual status of the documents as well if it is just certain sections/pages that makes them NO-GO.

 

[Urwumpe]

Well, the one at GRC I'm in contact with is the GRC Export Administrator, Agreements Manager. I have asked if a request of review could be forwarded to someone at GRC that could make a decision on the actual status of the documents as well if it is just certain sections/pages that makes them NO-GO.

At least the stuff that is taught already commonly at universities is not subject to ITAR regulations at all. Since you can find a lot of information about Centaur family details in universities and public domain, this should limit the actual protected information to a very categories. For example encryption systems are often an exception to the rule.

Also a hydrogen/oxygen stage is no "defense article". The military value of hydrogen/oxygen technology is not higher than that of a 767 airliner.

 

[Donamy]

Probably any information that may pertain to DOD missions is no go.