News Asiana 777-200 Crash on landing at SFO

[Screamer7]

I may be wrong but to me it looks like the landing gear struck the cliff at the runway threshold.
Or as you say Gary, the tail part of the aircraft.
http://www.orbiter-forum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11901&stc=1&d=1373146777

 

[Urwumpe]

Fully agreed, a airplane flying away from you looks like it's flying downward. Perspective is a very odd thing. It'll be interesting to see the FDR output from this - assuming it's intact. Also be interesting to see where the tail and left engine ended up.

It is likely intact, a FDR survives way more punishment, even a massive fire is usually no big deal. The FDR of the plane that flew into the Pentagon was even recovered, though most of the data was unusable.

 

[N_Molson]

Yeah, I heard in some documentary that the FDRs can take more than 50 G. Serious stuff.

 

[garyw]

I may be wrong but to me it looks like the landing gear struck the cliff at the runway threshold.

Good image there... certainly something smacked into the rocks, that combined with the low approach speed and, if true, the large nose high, tail low component it would make sense if the plane clipped the rocks, tore off the tail which came to a stop at the threshold and then the plane itself comes in heavy, smashes the wheels and goes off the side.

*all theory based on that photo!

 

[Screamer7]

Here is a You Tube footage of the crash trail.

---------- Post added at 09:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:49 PM ----------

The more I look at these images, the more I am convinced it was the tail part of the B 777 that struck the cliff at the runway threshold.
If it was the gear, the debris trail would not be so close to the brake water cliff.

 

[Urwumpe]

The impact is also pretty far right off the centerline, unusual.

But yes, the tailstrike starts already at the waterline, that is a pretty strong sign of trouble. Still, since there was no earlier emergency call, I would say it sounds like pilot error.

 

[garyw]

Boeing 777 flight tests including stalls. Shows just how high the nose can get and how the plane seems to always stall on the left wing first:

 

[Screamer7]

Correction to previous post.
It may be the landing gear impacting the edge separating the runway from the San Francisco Bay.
Check the last photo in this link by the Aviation Herald.
It marked the position of the landing gear struts after the accident.
One piece of the landing gear is in the water.
http://avherald.com/h?article=464ef64f&opt=0

 

[garyw]

News now saying that the crash 'is not terrorism related' - I think we already figured that one.

One person has died, 10 are in critical condition with 61 others injured.

 

[RisingFury]

The tail is missing - reports of the tail coming away during landing.

When the tail falls off, the center of gravity on the aircraft shift forward and the main wing produces a torque that turns the plane forward. In essence, the plane becomes nose-heavy and dives.

The nose of the aircraft appears relatively well preserved, so I'd have to *guess* that the plane hit the runway in a nose up attitude - quite a bit nose up, too.

I'd also guess that the impact would damage the back of the airplane and damage the tail. I doubt that the plane would land with a nose up attitude if the tail came off before touchdown.

 

[Screamer7]

News now saying that the crash 'is not terrorism related' - I think we already figured that one.

One person has died, 10 are in critical condition with 61 others injured.

 

[ADSWNJ]

Reports of 2 fatalities at this time (per Airliners.net). The other 290-something souls had a very near miss with the Grim Reaper from those pictures.

Listening to the ATC recordings, there was no indication of anything abnormal on the landing at all - no pan or mayday situation, no priority landing, etc. Amazing how fast the ATC cleared the inbound traffic too - and all kinds of interesting diversions for the heavies. E.g. first ever A380 into Oakland.

Total speculation - but it looks like a destabilized approach at the end of a long flight, low and slow and trying to make the threshold. Looks like the gear and tail impacted the bay wall on the runway threshold, rupturing the fuselage just aft of the pressure bulkhead (you can see the intact bulkhead in the crash photos on AvHerald.com). You can only imagine the violence of the pitch down momentum with no tail and no undercarriage.

Surprised that the firefighters could not prevent the fire taking out the whole top of the fuselage - but if all the passengers were off, maybe it was an abundance of caution for the safety of the fire crews?

RIP for the lost souls.

 

[N_Molson]

Maybe we have something like a hard landing plus a tail repaired with doubler plates with failing corroded rivets, allowing cracks to spread until they entirely cut the tail ?

There is almost always more than one cause in plane accidents.

 

[Cosmic Penguin]

Well with this crash the 19+ years record of zero fatal accidents for the 777 seems to be finally broken..... :thumbsdown:

As for what happened - it seems that the plane was too high and too slow on approach until the last few hundred meters from the runway - probably stalled:

Interestingly it was reported that the ILS for runway 28L was not operating at that time and there's no PAPI on that runway due to the threshold literally on the sea wall. For some reason when I read about the initial news this crash did not remind me of BA038 - it reminds me of this one:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBo1QOoESUw"]Air Crash Investigation - Schipol Disaster - Turkish Airlines Flight 1951 - 1080p HDTV[/ame]

Let's hope that this is not another crew-induced stall again.....

 

[mojoey]

People reported hearing a pop and then seeing a fireball prior to contact with the ground. Maybe a real bad engine flameout?

 

[Bonanza123d]

well... I have been looking all day on Youtube or other sources if there was a live airport feed that someone so happened to record of the actual time of impact. Although that would have been taken down by the FBI already.

 

[Codz]

Although that would have been taken down by the FBI already.

What does the FBI have to do with a civilian aircraft accident?

 

[RisingFury]

well... I have been looking all day on Youtube or other sources if there was a live airport feed that someone so happened to record of the actual time of impact. Although that would have been taken down by the FBI already.

NTSB investigates airplane crashes within the USA and around the world, when the crashed plane was manufactured in US.

 

[garyw]

What does the FBI have to do with a civilian aircraft accident?

The FBI are involved with all accidents in case it's terrorism related. They've already stated it isn't so they've handed it over to the NTSB.

Interesting statement from Asiana

'The airline said mechanical problems did not cause the crash. "Currently we understand that there were no engine or mechanical problems," Asiana chief executive Yoon Young-Doo told a news conference in Seoul.
Early indications suggest the plane came in too short and hit the seawall at the airport.'


It seems that they are distancing themselves from the accident. Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23214513

 

[RisingFury]

The FBI are involved with all accidents in case it's terrorism related. They've already stated it isn't so they've handed it over to the NTSB.

Interesting statement from Asiana

'The airline said mechanical problems did not cause the crash. "Currently we understand that there were no engine or mechanical problems," Asiana chief executive Yoon Young-Doo told a news conference in Seoul.
Early indications suggest the plane came in too short and hit the seawall at the airport.'


It seems that they are distancing themselves from the accident. Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23214513

It's looking more and more like a case of pilot error, though I admit this is a guess on my part, given that the investigation is far from complete...

As for everyone distancing themselves... yea. That's what always happens. When a plane falls down, everyone distances themselves from the crash. There's always hell to pay, because when the investigation is complete, someone must be blamed...