Ares I-X Updates

[tblaxland]

Anyway, this will be a awesome launch to see, even as NASA has already started internally reviewing Ares alternatives (including DIRECT!).

Correction, they have direct to review heavy lift alternatives, ie, alternatives to Ares V, not Ares I.

Anyway, back to Ares I-X...

---------- Post added at 19:56 ---------- Previous post was at 12:45 ----------

Ares I-X vibration testing video: http://www.flickr.com/photos/28634332@N05/3882242036/

 

[Star Voyager]

Ares on B, Atlantis on A:

 

[DaveS]

Ares 1X press-kit is now available: http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/396682main_Ares_I-X-pk.pdf

 

[tblaxland]

Ares 1X press-kit is now available

WARNING: Contains bad photoshopping

 

[Dambuster]

WARNING: Contains bad photoshopping

EDIT: I suppose it may actually be real.

 

[tblaxland]

EDIT: I suppose it may actually be real.

No, it couldn't be. There is little to no foreshortening on the rocket, and no barrel distortion either, yet there is a large amount of both on the VAB. So much that I am surprised that someone just pasted the Ares I-X in there. Anyway, its easy to be an armchair critic, I guess.

 

[DaveS]

No, it couldn't be. There is little to no foreshortening on the rocket, and no barrel distortion either, yet there is a large amount of both on the VAB. So much that I am surprised that someone just pasted the Ares I-X in there. Anyway, its easy to be an armchair critic, I guess.

And Ares 1X was rolled out during the night(First motion of the Crawler Transporter out of the VAB was at 1:39:30 am EDT). And the HIgh Bay doors weren't opened until 9 pm EDT and the CT didn't enter the bay until 11 pm EDT.

That picture is fake and the Ares 1X is just a CG-render pasted into a real photo of the VAB High Bay 3.

Another dead-give away that it is fake, is that the logos on the USS faces the wrong way. The logos are on the other side of the USS that is facing the inside of the VAB, not on the side that faces the outside.

 

[Moonwalker]

Photomontages are nothing new at NASA. Beside those three photomontages within the press kit (the one on the front page, one showing Ares-1X on the pad on page 27 and another one in high bay 3 on page 28), all other photos are no photomontages, especially not the best one (to my taste) on page 30.

But to be honest, the content of the press kit is more of significance than 3 photomontages. I call such a kind of attention "ACP" - Ares-Critics-Phenomena :lol:

 

[Urwumpe]

It is not hard to be a critic of Ares.

You have math and sanity on your side, which is pretty uncommon for spaceflight criticism.

 

[Moonwalker]

Well, it is also not hard to be a critic of STS or of human space flight on the whole. But it's also not hard to be an enthusiast of human space flight and to be on the optimistical side.

 

[Urwumpe]

Well, it is also not hard to be a critic of STS or of human space flight on the whole. But it's also not hard to be an enthusiast of human space flight and to be on the optimistical side.

Yes, but nature doesn't give a damn about your emotions. Billions of people can be optimistic about a thing and it can still explode and disappoint them all.

If you can be pessimistic about something and it would still work, but maybe not as good as optimal and with this flaw and that flaw and maybe some excessive use of propellant, it is still better as starting with optimism, that all will be good, and eventually reduce the "good" down to "if it lifts off and does not break in two pieces during max-Q, it is a full success".

 

[Moonwalker]

For now there is nothing more than speculation and exaggeration.

On Tuesday, Ares critics might sing small. We'll see...

 

[Urwumpe]

On Tuesday, Ares critics might sing small. We'll see...

Why should they? NASA manages to launch a SRB with ballast, using a Atlas V flight computer? If NASA does it successfully, NASA has done something that is considered an easy task for the money that flew into the project. Orbital Sciences does something like that (buying motors from ATK and turn them into launch vehicles) for almost two decades, and with a fraction of the budget for Ares I-X.

If it fails in any thinkable way, it is a staggering defeat for NASA and constellation. You can't interpret it different. NASA has absolutely nothing to win with this test, it is just for comforting people who are not having any knowledge about engineering and spaceflight. Politicians.

 

[Moonwalker]

NASA will test and prove flight characteristics, hardware, facilities and ground operations. Anything else is "opinion".

 

[Urwumpe]

Ah yes... BTW: I will test your intelligence. I have selected another mammal, a rat, as proper test object and will extrapolate the results on you.

Even if I would have chosen a Bonobo, you might have complained about the choice being flawed. But when NASA launches a rocket that has only a few aerodynamic parameters right to test characteristics that depend on the parts that are different to the final launcher, it is a good comparison?

This is not just opinion, any sane engineer will tell you the same, and use the same scientific arguments why. The Ares I-X is show from politicians for politicians.

 

[Moonwalker]

I won't try to take away your and other opinions on Ares-1X

What Ares-1X stands for has been pointed out by NASA, engineers and even by Norman Augustine. You can try to argue about, somebody can try to argue about. I won't argue about it, since there is nothing really left to argue about, beside individual opinions.

 

[SiberianTiger]

This is not just opinion, any sane engineer will tell you the same, and use the same scientific arguments why. The Ares I-X is show from politicians for politicians.

Hopefully it won't destroy the pad... That's the most significant concern.
BTW, Augustine's committee's report mentioned that NASA needed to cut their costs. One not-so-crucially-necessary flight less might have been a good start in that.

 

[Urwumpe]

I won't argue about it, since there is nothing really left to argue about, beside individual opinions.

I rather follow the opinion of physics, than your opinions... The reality ALWAYS has the last word.

 

[Hielor]

It is common practice in engineering to use analogs; things which are not the same as the real thing but similar enough to be able to gather some useful data.

 

[Urwumpe]

It is common practice in engineering to use analogs; things which are not the same as the real thing but similar enough to be able to gather some useful data.

Yes, but you have a lot of work for selecting the right analog and document where the differences will influence the results.

A block of lead can be a useful analog for making a mass dummy of a nuclear bomb, but it is not useful for measuring the radiation.

And for Ares I-X, there is actually only visual similarity to the current concept of the Ares I. The aerodynamics aren't even precisely the same, though at least similar enough for serious comparison.

But the flight dynamics, that should get tested, for example by turning off the RCS every 10th second, are not the same. You have no sloshing, no fifth SRB segment, and different internal structure than the real upper stage - all factors which influence your roll behavior a lot. Even the separation sequence data can't be used. A upper stage with 95% liquid content behaves completely unlike a stage with 100% solid rigid structure,especially when you examine staging. Especially when you have massive vibration loads, which will induce motion of the fuel.

The recovery of the first stage will also be different later, since the masses and staging sequence will vary.

If they would take the business serious, Ares I-X would be what Ares I-Y is planned to be: The first test flight of the Ares-I rocket, in the Ares-I configuration.