Project Ares Heavy Lifter Concept

[YuriGaga]

Hello Everybody, :tiphat:

since one month I am thinking about the posibility to have an AresV Rocket with NASAs newest updates in the construction.

Means: 5 or 6 RS-68 engines from the DeltaIV.
1 or 3 J-2X engines for the 2nd Stage.
Additional I want to fix 5.5 segment SRBs in different configuration.
2,3,4 or 6 SRBs, like in this view:

It will be nice to have a AresV with 6 SRBs and a new designed upper-stage for to provide to lift whatever you want, together with the payload manager.

Since 2 weeks I am drawing with AutoCAD on my Stages and now I come to the point where I have to start to create an add on in Orbiter.
I am able to import my drawings as a .msh file into Orbiter.
But I have absolutly no idea how to program it and how to make a add on.
Well - I want learn this, but it is a really to big projekt for a beginner.
I am a draftsman - but not a Programmer. :shrug: So if you want help me to bring this project together to the tower so please contact me.
Please also contact me ,if you are interested or if you have some good idea!

OK - her are some pictures of my drawings from last week:
Greatings
YuriGaga

 

[DaveS]

Sorry but Ares V as currently currently planned(2xSRB, 6xRS68B, 1xJ2-X) is pretty much at the limit of what Launch Complex 39 can handle. Any larger and heavier the pads will need to be redone from scratch.

For Ares V they will have to redo the Crawlerway and procure brand new Crawler Transporters that can handle the wight of Ares V and it's Mobile Launcher.

 

[YuriGaga]

THAT`S NOT MY PROBLEM!

But thank you very much for to create a stronger and heavier Crawler for my projekt.
Greatings
YuriGaga

 

[dumbo2007]

How much more powerful is the Ares compared to the Saturn 5....heard it was supposed to take more men than the 3 allowed with Apollo.

 

[DaveS]

THAT`S NOT MY PROBLEM!

But thank you very much for to create a stronger and heavier Crawler for my projekt.
Greatings
YuriGaga

If you mean that I have offered to make a CT for your project, then I must correct you on that. I have not made any offer to do this. I just informed you that your project isn't really viable in the real world as NASA just doens't have the budget for making such extensive modifications to LC-39.

It barely has enough for the current architecture, which is comprised of the Ares 1 Crew Launch Vehicle(CLV) and Ares V Cargo Launch Vehicle(CaLV).

And that is only if ISS is de-orbited in 2015.

 

[Columbia42]

I'm already making an Ares V addon. The thread is here: http://orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?t=11714&highlight=ares

 

[Urwumpe]

Real world and Orbiter: Without growing the tanks as well, the additional engines are also just wasted mass. The shorter burn time brings you less gravity losses, but much higher aerodynamic and control losses, and thus actually much less payload (because of the higher stage burn-out mass).




Real world complications: The Ares V is also currently at the maximum diameter that the tools of the Michoud plant can handle. You can only grow longer without complete retooling, but would then reach the limits of the transport barges, the VAB and the launch pad.

 

[gosavich]

Yuri,

Your models look fantastic. I wish I could take you up on your offer to help do some coding to implement an add-on. Keep up the good work!

DaveS, Urwumpe,

News flash!!! Orbiter ain't reality. It's not even close.

This guy just wants to share some of his work with the community and all you two can do is point out how it isn't realistic enough for your tastes. You two are both being about as sensitive and encouraging as a toilet seat. Who cares if the arrangements Yuri has modeled never get implemented by NASA? Try being a little more supportive.

Cheers!

 

[Sky Captain]

Those are some nice models:thumbup: I wish I could make models that good.

Regarding weight if you replaced SRB`s with LRB`s made from Ukrainian Zenit rocket first stages the weight even with 8 boosters would be less than original Ares V with only 2 SRB`s. Russian Energia rocket had configuration with 8 Zenit strapon boosters although it never flew.

Also if you don`t know how to code dll`s I recomend Multistage2
http://users.swing.be/vinka/
and Velcro Rockets addons.

[ame="http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=3388"]Velcro Rockets v1.1[/ame]


With those you can assamble your stages using only text based config files

 

[Urwumpe]

News flash!!! Orbiter ain't reality. It's not even close.

Which is why I did a separation between WHAT has effect in orbiter, and what is just fluff. The physics behind trajectories and performance are very accurate.

It is closer than you obviously think. Also I don't give a damn, if you draw your inspiration from your toilet seat, but don't deduct from you on others.

 

[YuriGaga]

THANK YOU VERY MUCH GUYS FOR ANSWERING! :thumbup:

I maybe forgot to say, that I will let run this under VELCRO. So I also know, that tis is not realistic. But the SSU-pilots are a little to much detailistic.
Proabably I will use the Tower in the add-on, But serious I will make it same like in the Velcro-Saturn-add-on!

This Project will have the Name: AresV_HLC
And it will be run as a experimental-Velcro-add-on - like: "What happend if...???"
PLEASE LOOK ON THIS LINK:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2008/06/study-reveals-a-six-rs-68-and-55-segment-booster-for-ares-v/

So - I have following messages for you:

Gosawich: YOU GOT THE JOB! - Just contact me. But I hope you have some experience with to fix stages together! I will finish the drawings with all details befor end of january ! ! ! (I am the draftsman - you are the coder)

Sky Captain: YOU ALSO ON THE PROJECT! - Just contact me. You get all my drawings and can use everything for your russian modifications. If you own add-on or toghether - doesn´t matter. And talk with Gosawich!

Columbia42: It will be nice If you can provide me the SRBs for my project and if you have some details about how the engines and interstages look like - then i will be very happy.
I hope with the classification as a velcro-lifter-concept, I don´t make you angry cause of you still on work on some realistic-concept. :shifty:

Urwumpe: Will be nice if you explain me more about Physic and such things - but please in german - my english is very poor. Ich bin Maschinenbautechniker! Verstehe also ein bischen davon.

DaveS: If we use the tower and it will collaps, I swear that we will not sue you!

Dumbo2007: Look on the Link I on the top.

Thanks very much to all answerers:
Greatings
Yuri Gaga

PS: My Stage in Orbiter from today:

 

[Columbia42]

First of all, your models are awesome!
I'd love to help with this project but I'm already working on two other addons so I'm kind of busy right now.

 

[T.Neo]

It is closer than you obviously think.

Not if we go by the Deltaglider.

And Star Trek addons...

C'mon, it's an addon for a sim... I understand your constructive criticism, but there isn't any need to get uppity about anything here.

 

[Urwumpe]

Urwumpe: Will be nice if you explain me more about Physic and such things - but please in german - my english is very poor. Ich bin Maschinenbautechniker! Verstehe also ein bischen davon.

Ah, Maschinenbauer - damit kenne ich mich etwas aus. :lol:
Translation for the internationals: Ah, engineers - i know a bit about this.

Also in einfachen Worten und minimaler Mathematik:
So, in simple english and with minimal mathematics:

Du bekommst nicht dadurch höhere Nutzlast, indem Du mehr Triebwerke installierst.
You won't get more payload by installing more engines.

Du musst die Treibstoffmenge erhöhen und dann genug Triebwerke installieren, um den Treibstoff in sinnvoller Zeit zu verbrauchen.
You need a higher propellant mass and then install enough engines for consuming the propellants in sensible time.

:thumbup:

 

[YuriGaga]

Wrong translation Urwumpe! I call myself: "Bachelor engineer for mechanical construction" - Whatever. Seems to me like you haven´t read the link I posted:
There is written in Inglisch:
"The 6 RS-68 engines powering the Core will fly at 108 percent power levels (6 percent higher than used on Delta-IV currently) and will each produce 702,055 lbs of thrust and have an Isp of 365 seconds at sea level and will have 797,000 lb of thrust and will have an Isp of 414 seconds in a vacuum.
Total expected burn time for the Core will be 303 seconds and the 6 main engines will produce a maximum of 4.17G during the launch. The EDS will likewise be constructed out of mostly composite materials.
The J-2X engine will burn at the 100 percent power level for the orbital insertion burn, but will burn at the 81 percent power level for TLI. The reduced thrust optimizes the Isp for the mass-critical TLI burn. The insertion altitude has been raised from 120 nmi to 131.5 nmi circular.
Total roll out weight with the crawler and the MLP (Mobile Launch Platform) will be approximately 18 million lbs, which exceeds the capability of the existing crawlerway rated for 16.8 million lbs. The ability for Ares V to remain within its budget targets is now considered a 4×4 risk on the standard 5×5 risk matrix."

Muß man blos noch alles umrechnen dann hat man metrische Maße.
Must be just all transcalculäte then you häve metric meschurings!

Greatings
YuriGaga

 

[Urwumpe]

I thought Portugal is also suffering from the Bologna process... :lol:

Isn't mechanical construction ("technische Konstruktion") just a specialization of the classic engineering ("Maschinenbau") study ? I am computer scientist("Informatiker") in a engineering institute (The exotic matter), I have no perfect knowledge about the shallows of engineering studies.

Also, the NASA link contains actually exactly the stuff mentioned by DaveS and me, though in a more "between the lines" way.

The study does also not contain any preliminary launch sound level analysis, which is out of understandable reasons not done...why do the analysis work, if it is already having all red alert lights shining ("4x4 on a 5x5 risk matrix" - which means almost all dangerous problems you can possibly get, are summoned.)

 

[Columbia42]

Ah, Maschinenbauer - damit kenne ich mich etwas aus. :lol:
Translation for the internationals: Ah, engineers - i know a bit about this.

Also in einfachen Worten und minimaler Mathematik:
So, in simple english and with minimal mathematics:

Du bekommst nicht dadurch höhere Nutzlast, indem Du mehr Triebwerke installierst.
You won't get more payload by installing more engines.

Du musst die Treibstoffmenge erhöhen und dann genug Triebwerke installieren, um den Treibstoff in sinnvoller Zeit zu verbrauchen.
You need a higher propellant mass and then install enough engines for consuming the propellants in sensible time.

:thumbup:

If adding more engines doesn't increase the payload capacity, then why has NASA added a 6th RS-68 to their Ares V designs?

 

[YuriGaga]

THANK YOU COLUMBIA42! :tiphat:
Will we do this Project together or not?

Greatings
YuriGaga
(basicly stupid)

 

[Columbia42]

I think it's a great idea to do the project together. What exactly do you need help with?

 

[YuriGaga]

OK Columbia,

I have absolutly no idea how to make from my stages an add-on.
But I will draw everything so good as I can. I can make meshes and import into
Orbiter.
What I can´t do is: fix them together; program the ignition, make the physics,
and the seperations - and all this stuff I can´t do. But I will learn it slowly
I joined Orbiter befor one month! - so I am really a rooky.

So we shud talk in some chat about everything.
I prever Skype or the orbiter chat.

Gratings
YuriGaga