Flight Question Can you rendezvous with a craft in a solar orbit?

[Gordontrek]

I've created a scenario which involves rendezvousing with a derelict spacecraft in a solar orbit that passes within the Earth's sphere of influence (it comes to about 180,000 km away from Earth). I have the craft right where I want it in the scenario, but I'm having trouble figuring out exactly how to get to the thing. I've searched all the manuals I have and checked all over this site. It seems that rendezvous with objects like this is possible since a lot of people talk about it, but I'm having trouble figuring it out.
Keep in mind that the derelict craft in question is in a solar orbit that passes close to the Earth, like a near-Earth object.
Is there a good technique, tutorial, or MFD that would help me with this sort of thing? Any help is appreciated.

 

[Hlynkacg]

Coincidentally I uploaded an MFD that is designed for this very purpose about 10 minutes ago. It mimics the functions of the Apollo landing and rendezvous radar systems. The demo scenario is a lunar orbit rendezvous, but the basic method described will work regardless.

X-Pointer MFD

Edit:
I should warn you. It was compiled using the Orbiter Beta (r.55) sdk. I don't know if it will work with Orbiter 2010.

 

[Urwumpe]

Generally, it makes no difference around which body you orbit, planet or sun.

But because of the longer orbit periods in solar orbit, it is possible to simply point at the target and fly towards it from much larger distances than it is possible in LEO.

 

[wingnut]

I think you could relatively easily use IMFD to rendez-vous with the target during its flyby of earth or if it is in the Sun's sphere of influence again - provided that you are familiar with IMFD in the first place.

TransX would also work but it is more effort than with IMFD.

Have you used either IMFD or TransX before?

 

[Gordontrek]

I think you could relatively easily use IMFD to rendez-vous with the target during its flyby of earth or if it is in the Sun's sphere of influence again - provided that you are familiar with IMFD in the first place.

TransX would also work but it is more effort than with IMFD.

Have you used either IMFD or TransX before?

I'm reasonably familiar with IMFD- I know how to set up a good flight to the Moon and Mars. I've already tried using it to intercept my derelict craft but I just miss it every time. It gets me in the ballpark, but not anywhere near visual range. I need to get close enough to put it in the cargo bay of an XR5.

 

[wingnut]

Can you post your scenario?

Edit: without using addon vessels.

 

[Gordontrek]

I'm at work right now; I will post it as soon as I get home.
The vessel I'm rendezvousing with is from the AMSO Apollo add-on. Is it ok to keep it in there, or do I need to take it out too? No other add-on vessels are in the scenario (maybe except the XR-5)

---------- Post added 06-22-16 at 04:06 AM ---------- Previous post was 06-21-16 at 06:34 PM ----------

Here's the scenario I've been working with- it starts three days away from my derelict craft's closest approach to Earth (its periapsis). I also have one that starts on the ground at KSC if you'd prefer that one.
This does have the Saturn V third stage from AMSO included in the scenario; it's the derelict craft I'm redezvousing with (yes, the scenario is a rendezvous and retrieval of the object J002E3.)

BEGIN_DESC
Begins with J002E3 three days from periapsis
END_DESC

BEGIN_ENVIRONMENT
  System Sol
  Date MJD 51979.0176631831
END_ENVIRONMENT

BEGIN_FOCUS
  Ship Constitution
END_FOCUS

BEGIN_CAMERA
  TARGET Constitution
  MODE Cockpit
  FOV 40.00
END_CAMERA

BEGIN_HUD
  TYPE Orbit
  REF Earth
END_HUD

BEGIN_SHIPS
ISS:ProjectAlpha_ISS
  STATUS Orbiting Earth
  RPOS 6105997.65 1471981.65 -2395441.26
  RVEL 2317.301 -7197.762 1473.539
  AROT -161.89 85.66 128.38
  AFCMODE 7
  PRPLEVEL 0:0.890989
  IDS 0:588 100 1:586 100 2:584 100 3:582 100 4:580 100
  NAVFREQ 0 0
  XPDR 466
END
Constitution:XR5Vanguard
  STATUS Orbiting Earth
  RPOS 5830169.53 1059308.57 3766956.15
  RVEL -4138.416 2813.054 5629.791
  AROT 26.52 33.08 6.00
  VROT -0.00 0.06 -0.00
  RCSMODE 0
  PRPLEVEL 0:0.928912 1:0.388618 2:1.000000
  IDS 0:197 100
  NAVFREQ 0 0 0 0
  XPDR 195
  SECONDARY_HUD 3
  LAST_ACTIVE_SECONDARY_HUD 0
  ADCTRL_MODE 0
  TAKEOFF_LANDING_CALLOUTS 7220.783898 0.554742 0.555746 0.000000 8.459497
  APU_FUEL_QTY 1.000000
  LOX_QTY 1.000000
  CABIN_O2_LEVEL 0.209000
  CREW_STATE 0
  INTERNAL_SYSTEMS_FAILURE 0
  COGSHIFT_MODES 0 0 0
  MWS_ACTIVE 0
  COOLANT_TEMP 44.854063
  DMG_0 1.000000 Left Wing
  DMG_1 1.000000 Right Wing
  DMG_2 1.000000 Left Aileron
  DMG_3 1.000000 Right Aileron
  DMG_4 1.000000 Landing Gear
  DMG_5 1.000000 Docking Port
  DMG_6 1.000000 Retro Doors
  DMG_7 1.000000 Top Hatch
  DMG_8 1.000000 Radiator
  DMG_9 1.000000 Airbrake
  DMG_10 1.000000 Left Main Engine
  DMG_11 1.000000 Right Main Engine
  DMG_12 1.000000 Left SCRAM Engine
  DMG_13 1.000000 Right SCRAM Engine
  DMG_14 1.000000 Fore Hover Engine
  DMG_15 1.000000 Aft Hover Engine
  DMG_16 1.000000 Left Retro Engine
  DMG_17 1.000000 Right Retro Engine
  DMG_18 1.000000 Forward Lower RCS
  DMG_19 1.000000 Aft Upper RCS
  DMG_20 1.000000 Forward Upper RCS
  DMG_21 1.000000 Aft Lower RCS
  DMG_22 1.000000 Forward Star. RCS
  DMG_23 1.000000 Aft Port RCS
  DMG_24 1.000000 Forward Port RCS
  DMG_25 1.000000 Aft Star. RCS
  DMG_26 1.000000 Outboard Upper Port RCS
  DMG_27 1.000000 Outboard Lower Star. RCS
  DMG_28 1.000000 Outboard Upper Star. RCS
  DMG_29 1.000000 Outboard Lower Port RCS
  DMG_30 1.000000 Aft RCS
  DMG_31 1.000000 Forward RCS
  DMG_32 1.000000 Bay Doors
  DMG_33 1.000000 Elevator
  IS_CRASHED 0
  MET_STARTING_MJD 51978.943780
  INTERVAL1_ELAPSED_TIME -1.000000
  INTERVAL2_ELAPSED_TIME -1.000000
  MET_RUNNING 1
  INTERVAL1_RUNNING 0
  INTERVAL2_RUNNING 0
  ACTIVE_MDM 3
  TEMP_SCALE 2
  CUSTOM_AUTOPILOT_MODE 0
  AIRSPEED_HOLD_ENGAGED 0
  SCRAM0DIR 0.000000 0.000000 1.000000
  SCRAM1DIR 0.000000 0.000000 1.000000
  HOVER_BALANCE 0.000000
  MAIN0DIR 0.000000 0.000000 1.000000
  MAIN1DIR 0.000000 0.000000 1.000000
  GIMBAL_BUTTON_STATES 0 0 0 0 0 0
  ATTITUDE_HOLD_DATA 0.000000 0.000000 0 0 0.000000
  DESCENT_HOLD_DATA 0.000000 -3.000000 0
  AIRSPEED_HOLD_DATA 0.000000
  OVERRIDE_INTERLOCKS 0 0
  TERTIARY_HUD_ON 1
  CREW_DISPLAY_INDEX 0
  GEAR 0 0.0000
  RCOVER 0 0.0000
  DOCKINGPORT 0 0.0000
  AIRLOCK 0 0.0000
  IAIRLOCK 0 0.0000
  CHAMBER 0 0.0000
  AIRBRAKE 0 0.0000
  RADIATOR 1 1.0000
  LADDER 0 0.0000
  HATCH 0 0.0000
  SCRAM_DOORS 0 0.0000
  HOVER_DOORS 0 0.0000
  BAY_DOORS 0 0.0000
  ELEVATOR 0 0.0000
  APU_STATUS 1
  EXTCOOLING_STATUS 0
  TRIM 0.000000
  LIGHTS 0 0 0
  XRUMMU_CREW_DATA_VALID 1
  UMMUCREW XI0-Michael_Samuelle-37-65-78
  UMMUCREW XI1-Nikita_Simone-29-65-54
  UMMUCREW XI2-Madeline_Dolenc-36-68-58
  UMMUCREW XI3-Seymour_Birkoff-24-71-68
  UMMUCREW XI4-Katherine_Quinn-28-67-56
  UMMUCREW XI5-Cameron_Mitchell-36-65-77
  UMMUCREW XI6-Samantha_Carter-33-66-53
  UMMUCREW XI7-Daniel_Jackson-35-68-75
  UMMUCREW XI8-Teal_c-31-64-104
  UMMUCREW XI9-Vala_Mal_Doran-30-67-53
  UMMUCREW XI10-Elizabeth_Weir-36-68-56
  UMMUCREW XI11-John_Sheppard-34-64-77
  UMMUCREW XI12-Rodney_McKay-35-72-90
  UMMUCREW XI13-Teyla_Emmagan-27-68-57
  UMMUCREW XI14-Ronon_Dex-32-63-97
  UMMUCREW XI15-Carson_Beckett-38-74-95
  UMMUCREW XI16-Lee_Adama-26-65-74
  UMMUCREW XI17-Kara_Thrace-26-67-55
  RCS_DOCKING_MODE 0
  ACTIVE_EVA_PORT 0
  PAYLOAD_SCREENS_DATA 0.2 0 1 0
END
J002E3:AMSO\Saturn_STG3
  STATUS Orbiting Sun
  RPOS -146879736512.27 62059284.75 24636935360.51
  RVEL -4982.590 -530.313 -30616.637
  AROT 0.00 -0.00 0.00
  AFCMODE 7
  NAVFREQ 0 0
  STATE 10
  EVTT -2189352.43
END
Constitution_Bay:XRPayloadBay
  STATUS Orbiting Earth
  RPOS 5830182.71 1059303.21 3766937.02
  RVEL -4138.416 2813.054 5629.791
  AROT 26.52 33.08 6.00
  VROT -0.00 0.06 -0.00
  ATTACHED 0:36,Constitution
  AFCMODE 7
END
END_SHIPS

BEGIN_ExtMFD
END

 

[Hlynkacg]

For what it's worth, if you can close enough to get a nav signal from the derelict, my MFD will get you the rest of the way. It now works in both the normal and beta releases of orbiter

 

[wingnut]

Okay, it is harder than I imagined.

Setting up a sort of Hohmann transfer in IMFD to meet the target more or less at its apoapsis gets me not even close to the target.

Next I have tried to meet the target at its periapsis inside Earth's SOI also with IMFD which was equally unseccessful.

Finally I've used TransX to do the initial burn to meet the target at its periapsis, this required a significant mid-course correction. This time done with IMFD, this got me to the target with an encounter velocity of some 1,300 m/s.

Find below the scenario snapshot with my TransX plan and the rendez-vous at ~24 km from the target (I've replaced all addon vessels with stock Deltagliders).

This might not the optimal way to do it. On the other hand this approach makes more sense if you want to have the possibility to abort your mission after the initial burn since you will still be completely in Earth's SOI with a comfortably low periapsis. I would be interested to read opinions of other forum members.

BEGIN_DESC
TransX plan for the RV at periapsis.
END_DESC

BEGIN_ENVIRONMENT
  System Sol
  Date MJD 51979.0204652460
END_ENVIRONMENT

BEGIN_FOCUS
  Ship Constitution
END_FOCUS

BEGIN_CAMERA
  TARGET Constitution
  MODE Cockpit
  FOV 40.00
END_CAMERA

BEGIN_HUD
  TYPE Orbit
  REF Earth
END_HUD

BEGIN_MFD Left
  TYPE User
  MODE TransX
  Ship  Constitution
  FNumber 1
  Int 0
  Orbit True
  Vector  5541063.30847 1243105.03772 4130618.05914
  Vector  -4572.88448714 2725.08442918 5328.0437167
  Double  3.98600439969e+014
  Double  51979.0184311
  Handle Earth
  Handle NULL
  Handle J002E3
Select Target
 1 J002E3
Autoplan
0 0
Plan type
0 0
Plan
0 0
Plan
0 0
Plan
0 0
Select Minor
 0 None
Manoeuvre mode
0 1
Auto-Center™
0 0
Base Orbit
0 0
Prograde vel.
 6  2951.63115938
Man. date
 7  51979.0243487
Outward vel.
 6  0
Ch. plane vel.
 5  -4.041
Intercept with
0 0
Orbits to Icept
0 0
Graph projection
0 0
Scale to view
0 0
Advanced
0 0
Finvars
  Finish BaseFunction
END_MFD

BEGIN_MFD Right
  TYPE Orbit
  PROJ Frame
  FRAME Ecliptic
  REF Earth
  TARGET J002E3
END_MFD

BEGIN_SHIPS
ISS:ProjectAlpha_ISS
  STATUS Orbiting Earth
  RPOS 6426578.14 -304572.92 -1951739.55
  RVEL 314.223 -7384.372 2168.355
  AROT -147.13 86.58 143.17
  AFCMODE 7
  PRPLEVEL 0:0.890989
  IDS 0:588 100 1:586 100 2:584 100 3:582 100 4:580 100
  NAVFREQ 0 0
  XPDR 466
END
Constitution:DeltaGlider
  STATUS Orbiting Earth
  RPOS 4643924.74 1697179.33 4988287.18
  RVEL -5605.934 2426.862 4403.141
  AROT 28.72 47.37 7.43
  VROT -0.00 0.06 0.00
  AFCMODE 7
  PRPLEVEL 0:1.000000 1:1.000000
  NAVFREQ 0 0 0 0
  XPDR 0
  AAP 0:0 0:0 0:0
END
J002E3:DeltaGlider
  STATUS Orbiting Sun
  RPOS -146880942516.06 61930875.10 24629523066.75
  RVEL -4980.339 -530.493 -30617.133
  AROT 0.00 0.00 0.00
  AFCMODE 7
  IDS 0:62 100
  NAVFREQ 0 0 0 0
  XPDR 0
  AAP 0:0 0:0 0:0
END
END_SHIPS

BEGIN_ExtMFD
END

BEGIN_DESC
Orbiter saved state at T = 252947
END_DESC

BEGIN_ENVIRONMENT
  System Sol
  Date MJD 51981.9452873504
END_ENVIRONMENT

BEGIN_FOCUS
  Ship Constitution
END_FOCUS

BEGIN_CAMERA
  TARGET Constitution
  MODE Cockpit
  FOV 40.00
END_CAMERA

BEGIN_HUD
  TYPE Docking
  NAV 1
END_HUD

BEGIN_MFD Left
  TYPE Docking
  NAV 1
END_MFD

BEGIN_MFD Right
  TYPE Orbit
  PROJ Frame
  FRAME Ecliptic
  REF Earth
  TARGET J002E3
END_MFD

BEGIN_SHIPS
ISS:ProjectAlpha_ISS
  STATUS Orbiting Earth
  RPOS 6430641.67 -727609.25 -1823112.67
  RVEL -170.025 -7345.494 2310.663
  AROT -160.51 -45.87 62.18
  VROT 0.08 0.01 -0.06
  AFCMODE 7
  PRPLEVEL 0:0.890989
  IDS 0:588 100 1:586 100 2:584 100 3:582 100 4:580 100
  NAVFREQ 0 0
  XPDR 466
END
Constitution:DeltaGlider
  STATUS Orbiting Earth
  RPOS -43913575.73 -71103479.61 -179963480.28
  RVEL 1770.737 -323.955 -383.687
  AROT 97.03 74.32 51.26
  AFCMODE 7
  PRPLEVEL 0:0.777191 1:0.991716
  NAVFREQ 62 0 0 0
  XPDR 0
  AAP 0:0 0:0 0:0
END
J002E3:DeltaGlider
  STATUS Orbiting Earth
  RPOS -43936644.95 -71097767.58 -179963850.53
  RVEL 1770.730 -324.006 -383.803
  AROT 5.26 -8.92 -5.43
  AFCMODE 7
  IDS 0:62 100
  NAVFREQ 0 0 0 0
  XPDR 0
  AAP 0:0 0:0 0:0
END
END_SHIPS

BEGIN_ExtMFD
END

 

[Gordontrek]

Thanks a lot for taking the time to try the scenario and help me out. I'll keep practicing and see what I can do.

 

[themos]

Maybe you should study how Rosetta approached comet 67P.