News Contact lost with 777-200ER of Malaysia Airlines

[N_Molson]

The Australian had no luck with the search this Thursday. The P3-Orion had to deal with dense rain and serious winds, which made the observation very difficult. Even worse, launched from Australia, that plane can only spend 2 hours over the area before having to head for the base (or become another lost plane).

Another bad new is that there is a depht of more than a thousand meters in the area. Will make recovery of sunk debris nearly impossible.

The United States will send a P-8 Poseidon (modified 737 for ASW) to allow more extensive searches.

 

[Urwumpe]

Another bad new is that there is a depht of more than a thousand meters in the area. Will make recovery of sunk debris nearly impossible.

The remains of AF447 had been found in 6000 meter deep water.

 

[Thunder Chicken]

I'm not sure what the Australians are seeing, but what many folks fail to appreciate is how much trash and debris can be found in the ocean. Not just stray plastic cups and bags - whole houses, lots and lots of shipping containers, derelict ships, etc..

They are not looking for a needle in a haystack. They are looking for a needle in a pile of needles.

 

[mojoey]

I just wanna point out that in that last link, there's a link to an article on the same site detailing 'How to find a Wolf Sanctuary and meet some wild Wolves'. Now...I dunno about you, but I prefer to stay away from wolves, actually.

 

[Urwumpe]

I just wanna point out that in that last link, there's a link to an article on the same site detailing 'How to find a Wolf Sanctuary and meet some wild Wolves'. Now...I dunno about you, but I prefer to stay away from wolves, actually.

OFFTOPIC:

We have some wolf sanctuaries in Germany as well and also a few wild wolves now. It is not dangerous, since wolves are usually more afraid of you, than you are of them. Unless starving, they will make wide turns around settlements.

Farmers complain about Wolves killing lifestock, but then, you have to put in relation that the farmers reported the same number of killings already before Wolves appeared - to crows. You have to remember one detail of German law there: When an animal, that is on a EU list, kills your lifestock or eats your seeds from the plots, the EU pays you for the damages. When the animal just drops dead or got killed by straw dogs (or hunting dogs, who are not trained well by their owners and who excuse such misbehavior by "They should keep their hunting instinct"), the EU does not pay. So, it is easier to report that Wolves killed the animal and have the local hunter confirm this, then to sue the local hunter for his dog.

OFFTOPIC OVER.

Was it found yet?

 

[tl8]

No success yet. There are a few more hours of daylight today

 

[Ghostrider]

'How to find a Wolf Sanctuary and meet some wild Wolves'. Now...I dunno about you, but I prefer to stay away from wolves, actually.

"Wolf Sanctuary" seems the title of some anime series. And I have this mental image of John Cleese asking "Have you met the wild wolves?"

 

[Ripley]

I've just heard at the radio that Boeing admitted that this flight had the flammable lithium batteries on board.

 

[Urwumpe]

I've just heard at the radio that Boeing admitted that this flight had the flammable lithium batteries on board.

does not explain 7.5 hours of engine data after loss of communication. also, lithium battery is not lithium battery. while all are flammable, the risk and severity varies with the construction of the battery. the 787 ones have very large cells, which improves power density, but causes a strong risk for violent fires.

 

[garyw]

I've just heard at the radio that Boeing admitted that this flight had the flammable lithium batteries on board.

As a cargo that Malaysia airlines put on board. They say it was packaged correctly which means no risk of a fire. Even if it did catch fire cargo hold sensors and fire extinguishers would take care of it and give the pilot time to radio for help.

 

[Urwumpe]

China reports a sighting of possible wreckage on satellite images on the southern corridor. One object is 22.5 meters long and 13 meters wide.

 

[N_Molson]

They [Malaysia Airlines] say it was packaged correctly which means no risk of a fire

They won't say the contrary, anyway

 

[Artlav]

Hm. How long is the FDR and CVR records last these days?
If the plane was flying for 7 hours after the main event, then we may very well never know what happened, since the tapes would have overwritten themselves 7 times over.

 

[garyw]

CVR is 30 minutes although many planes have CVR's that last much longer.

FDR is normally hours, sometimes hundreds of hours.

 

[dbeachy1]

According to [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cockpit_voice_recorder"]this[/ame]:

A standard CVR is capable of recording 4 channels of audio data for a period of 2 hours.

As for the FDR, according to [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_data_recorder"]this[/ame]:

Most FDRs record approximately 17–25 hours worth of data in a continuous loop.

...although there is no link included citing that statistic, so it could be wildly different.

 

[Quick_Nick]

What dbeachy1 said.

http://www.businessinsider.com/malaysia-plane-370-black-box-2014-3

---------- Post added at 01:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:32 PM ----------

By the way, does the evidence point directly to the plane flying for seven hours, or just that it was powered on for seven hours? For example, could someone fly it just four hours, then leave certain systems enabled for three hours so that it looks like it went further and ran out of fuel? (Total conspiracy theory and unlikely - Just curious)

 

[N_Molson]

An 'expert' said that toxic fumes coming from a lithium batteries fire could easily have intoxicated and killed the whole crew.

Would that be an improbable scenario then ?:

1) Batteries take fire for a reason (like O2 canisters loosely stored nearby), but the fire is contained enough by insulation materials and fire extinguishers to allow the aircraft to fly.

2) Alas, the dense and very toxic fumes propagate quickly through the ventilation system. The crew notices it, try to set the autopilot on a return course, but are deadly intoxicated.

3) The now automated plane continues on the set course until fuel runs out and crashes somewhere around the current search area.

Yeah, the problem of the lack of communications remain. Could a fire in the storage area destroy the wires that links the cockpit to the radio antenna ?

 

[Urwumpe]

Could a fire in the storage area destroy the wires that links the cockpit to the radio antenna ?

Important is, the communications had been intentionally terminated, not just by malfunction. Could still have a good reason, for example disturbing noises, electrical problems or a fire indication.

 

[kerlix]

I apologize if this has been answered. It's late, but has anyone addressed the issue of the current search area being nearly 180* degrees in the wrong direction?

There's been talk of a "zombie plane" (i.e. - crew/passengers incapacitated/dead and the AP just continuing on it's merry way). However, in such a situation, is radar coverage in that part of the world really that sparse? That a modern airliner can fly undetected?

At the same time, most (if not all) ATC relies on the transponder to be functioning and broadcasting to be able to pinpoint position. Although looking back, on 9/11, weren't the transponders turned off, however ATC was still able to track the planes on return pings alone?


Either way, it seems as if something went terribly wrong, terribly fast. Otherwise there should have been at least some sort of communication indicating trouble.

OR, something was done intentionally. I initially feared mid-air breakup due to bomb (first initial guess) or structural failure (far 2nd guess due to the the service record of the T7). However, if there was data (attempting/available) for transmission for such a long time, it seems as if most, if not all, the occupants were disabled within a remarkably short amount of time, or someone intentionally didn't want to be found.

Of course, the latter points to either suicide and/or terrorism. However, people generally, but not always, leave things behind for others to find after they commit suicide (sadly, I'm familiar with this). And terror groups of any size would (I'm guessing here, so please don't chastise) love to claim responsibility for a disaster/mystery of this scale.

Which points to either a (absolute) lone-wolf-type terror event, or a highly unforeseeable event that caused incapacitation very quickly. Personally, I'm leaning towards the latter. As in, 89* lean towards the latter.

 

[ISProgram]

Important is, the communications had been intentionally terminated, not just by malfunction. Could still have a good reason, for example disturbing noises, electrical problems or a fire indication.

Later that day, a Japan-bound pilot from another Boeing 777 claimed to have made contact with MH370 at 1.30am, minutes before it disappeared, saying he had asked the aircraft if it had entered Vietnamese airspace, but received only static and mumbling in return.

From this, and possibly indicative of something like that.

Another source says:

An unnamed pilot to newspaper reporters in Malaysia that he heard a “mumbled” transmission of some type from Flight 370 before it disappeared. A second unnamed pilot flying over the South China Sea when the Boeing 777 seemingly vanished in thin air also claims to have heard a mumbled transmission from the Malaysian airliner.

The South China Sea pilot told local reporters that he thinks he may have been speaking with the Flight 370 co-pilot but the communication was full of both mumbling and interference.

Interest, also, in that the South China pilot though he was talking to the co-pilot, who was also the last one to speak from MH370.


Also, with regards to those lithium batteries and possible fire, they could've just opened the doors, right?

That is not a joke nor a intentional stupid question. It was part of a "smoke evacuation" checklist, and to my knowledge (or Mayday), I'm pretty sure a [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_African_Airways_Flight_295"]certain flight[/ame] could've/would've done it, had smoke not entered the cockpit. In mention to that particular flight, note the (possible) cause of the fire, how fast the fire brought down the plane, and how, most importantly, how the search teams looked in the wrong direction due to misinterpretation of directions from the pilots. Provided, though, it only took 12 hours to find signs of the crash, where right now we have nothing.

Hope this helps.