Launch News North Korea successfully shoot satellite into space! December 12, 2012

[Cosmic Penguin]

Holy cow, it appears that the satellite DOES reach an orbit! (495 x 588 km x 97.4 degrees) At least this is very similar to what the Chinese did back in 1970..... :hmm:

 

[Yoda]

Gotta hand it to them; didn't think they actually pulled it off putting something in orbit !

 

[Urwumpe]

Is it confirmed now, or is it again claimed by NK? The latest news here had been debris crashing down near Philippines, which would have been pretty far for their launches. But the last times, NK news also claimed that the satellite reached orbit for the early days.

 

[tl8]

Is it confirmed now, or is it again claimed by NK? The latest news here had been debris crashing down near Philippines, which would have been pretty far for their launches. But the last times, NK news also claimed that the satellite reached orbit for the early days.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-12-12/north-korea-launches-rocket/4423668

 

[Artlav]

Apparently, confirmation from NORAD:
http://www.norad.mil/News/2012/121112b.html

NORAD acknowledges missile launch

NORAD and USNORTHCOM Public Affairs
December 11, 2012

PETERSON AIR FORCE BASE, Colo. - North American Aerospace Defense Command officials acknowledged today that U.S. missile warning systems detected and tracked the launch of a North Korean missile at 7:49 p.m. EST. The missile was tracked on a southerly azimuth. Initial indications are that the first stage fell into the Yellow Sea. The second stage was assessed to fall into the Philippine Sea. Initial indications are that the missile deployed an object that appeared to achieve orbit. At no time was the missile or the resultant debris a threat to North America.

 

[Cosmic Penguin]

Is it confirmed now, or is it again claimed by NK? The latest news here had been debris crashing down near Philippines, which would have been pretty far for their launches. But the last times, NK news also claimed that the satellite reached orbit for the early days.

NORAD has already detected three objects related to this launch in orbit:

2012-072A/39026: 498 x 588 km x 97.41°
2012-072B/39027: 498 x 582 km x 97.41°
2012-072C/39028: 499 x 570 km x 97.44°

The North Koreans claimed an orbit of 499.7 x 584.18 km x 97.4°, which is pretty close, so I think success seems certain. The final call will be from amateur satellite observers and radio trackers around the globe....

 

[jedidia]

So, they finaly demonstrated that they can lob their nukes anywhere on the planet if they want to... Probably won't have an immediate effect, but times could get interesting... for them, mostly.

 

[SiberianTiger]

So, they finaly demonstrated that they can lob their nukes anywhere on the planet if they want to... Probably won't have an immediate effect, but times could get interesting... for them, mostly.

Actually, they probably don't yet have a nuke small enough to be be lobbed "anywhere" by their existing launcher. In today's environment, posing a nuclear attack threat takes some more mature technology than 60 years ago. Didn't we watch this launch preparation in almost real time, studying close-up orbital pictures of the pad and the rocket, available to the whole world? How difficult that would be for US navy, to turn the thing into rubble if a slightest sign of a real threat existed?

I'd not hold breath over a yet single successful orbital launch. But they have a potential. Good luck, DPRK. You are now star-bound too. Maybe with time your society will become better.

 

[Cosmic Penguin]

Actually, they probably don't yet have a nuke small enough to be be lobbed "anywhere" by their existing launcher. In today's environment, posing a nuclear attack threat takes some more mature technology than 60 years ago. Didn't we watch this launch preparation in almost real time, studying close-up orbital pictures of the pad and the rocket, available to the whole world? How difficult that would be for US navy, to turn the thing into rubble if a slightest sign of a real threat existed?

I'd not hold breath over a yet single successful orbital launch. But they have a potential. Good luck, DPRK. You are now star-bound too. Maybe with time your society will become better.

Especially given that this launch is very similar to the very first Chinese space launch back in April 1970..... (completely isolated nation, similar rockets, down to the songs radioed back to Earth.....)

 

[RisingFury]

I think it's deserving...

 

[Urwumpe]

Especially given that this launch is very similar to the very first Chinese space launch back in April 1970..... (completely isolated nation, similar rockets, down to the songs radioed back to Earth.....)

Except that China is a few hundred times bigger, has pretty much only economic luxury problems (the shadow banking system is one threat there), and especially not has to solve the problem how to feed the people.

NK must also not lob nukes over the ocean. It could also haul chemical or biological weapons. If the public image is already ruined, you are free to do what ever you like.

 

[Mader Levap]

Now who is laughing?
Never underestimate enemy, as they say.

 

[4throck]

Interesting.
Politics aside, I'm happy that another country has access to space.
So far, mostly good things have come from such advances.

But (and now regarding politics) I see that an opportunity was lost to lower tensions.
If some international observers were invited to see the launch and inspect the payload, I guess that the rhetoric would be different.
There's nothing to be gained from secrecy, and access to space is old news today. Private companies do it. But North Korea still hasn't learned that yet.

Final note:
A polar orbit is completely unsuitable for any kind of weapon. It could take weeks to fly over the target and then it would have to de-orbit at the right time, etc... Makes no sense.
They do have submarines, and those do have military value and can launch missiles that will work.

 

[Urwumpe]

Now who is laughing?
Never underestimate enemy, as they say.

I laugh. I laugh loud and I laugh till I turn blue. The world is a big joke and I am not sure if I laugh because I understand the joke, or I just laugh because I simply won't get it.

But aside of this: What has North Korea won by it? Maybe it should be remember the fate of King Pyrrhus, who came to the conclusion: "One more such victory, and I will be undone."

Why are we so slavishly following the rituals? Every year on Christmas, North Korea launches a rocket, tests a nuke, sinks a ship. Every half year later, North Korea needs more food, more money, more help from outside for staying this miserable artifact, a human experiment that went wrong catastrophically. It would be way cheaper to offer every North Korean soldier $100 as welcome present and a year of McDonalds for free in exchange of his weapon, if he crosses the DMZ, than to follow the same boring ritual every year. Maybe a new Hyundai if he comes with a tank or plane.

North Korea is not more than a foot note in history, and still our wise leaders treat it like a full book. If that isn't funny, what else is?

Oh, North Korea has a rocket that worked once... terrible. They could launch it against the USA maybe... really bad...

Of course, on the other hand, the USA could cover NK meters high in the food that is thrown away in supermarkets in their country every day, because it exceeded the "best use until" date. :rofl:

Wouldn't it be better, [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_truce"]if a group of US soldiers would simply take a christmas tree, some food and presents and cross the DMZ on christmas eve, singing christmas songs[/ame]? A much better thing to do in December.

 

[N_Molson]

It was pretty obvious they wouldn't fail forever.

 

[jedidia]

Actually, they probably don't yet have a nuke small enough to be be lobbed "anywhere" by their existing launcher. In today's environment, posing a nuclear attack threat takes some more mature technology than 60 years ago. Didn't we watch this launch preparation in almost real time, studying close-up orbital pictures of the pad and the rocket, available to the whole world? How difficult that would be for US navy, to turn the thing into rubble if a slightest sign of a real threat existed?

Hey, I know all that, but Saddam was bagged on the mere allegation of being able to launch a missile with chemical weapons at the USA... NK just demonstrated that they could actually do it, to what purpose or effect notwithstanding. As I said, times might get interesting... for them!

 

[Mader Levap]

I laugh. I laugh loud and I laugh till I turn blue. The world is a big joke and I am not sure if I laugh because I understand the joke, or I just laugh because I simply won't get it.

You are laughing only because you are feeling safe from loons of this world. It is fool's laugh.

Oh, North Korea has a rocket that worked once... terrible. They could launch it against the USA maybe... really bad...

You do not need nukes. Chemical or biological payload is sufficient. Hell, you do not need to use it - NK is not THAT crazy to actually lob nuke or nerve gas or some highly infectious crap at New York or whatever juicy target is out there. It is enough to "merely" have ability to do it to blackmail world with it.

Ever heard of power projection?

 

[Urwumpe]

You are laughing only because you are feeling safe from loons of this world. It is fool's laugh.

The optimist is not more often wrong than the pessimist, but he lives happier.

You do not need nukes. Chemical or biological payload is sufficient.

I know. If you read the thread again, you can see that I already wrote that some hours earlier.

Hell, you do not need to use it - NK is not THAT crazy to actually lob nuke or nerve gas or some highly infectious crap at New York or whatever juicy target is out there. It is enough to "merely" have ability to do it to blackmail world with it.

Not really. This is not Austin Powers here. Nobody talking to the UN for one million dollar.

If NK would claim that they want one billion dollar and South Korea on a silver tablet, or they will launch their rocket against the USA, I doubt that this would really work out as planned for NK. But its sure a good way to commit suicide.

Ever heard of power projection?

Yes. But this isn't power projection. I recommend you to read your Sun Tzu again, because he already had a good grasp of power projection 2000 years before you had been born.

 

[4throck]

Private companies in the US - and other places - have better rocket/space capability than what was demonstrated by NK.

If we analyze security risks based on the strategies of major terror / destabilization groups in the last decades - usage of civilian transport -, is clear that those private rockets as a much bigger threat. It's not that far fetched...

Yet we can discuss the usage of weapons forever. A knife is a weapon and restaurants are full of them :rofl:

 

[Cosmic Penguin]

Yup, they have rocket cam on board the rocket......... (from an NHK news report)