News Elon Musk wants to put millions of people on Mars.

The tobacco plantations in Virginia and the sugar plantations in the Caribbean both pre-date the Plymouth colony. Also, both were established as economic/commercial ventures. By the time the Puritans arrived in Plymouth (lost BTW (sort of) they were also headed for Virginia) the population of the Americas by "immigrants" exceeded 1 million.

Most all of those who chose to move to the "New World" did so for the sole purpose of striking it rich. I forsee the same mindset in migration to Mars. The environment is too harsh and unforgiving, and the risk is too great to believe that it will be colonized for any sort social engineering/hippie cults.

That doesn't change the fact that some people moved to the colonies to escape something.

Given that so far there is nothing in space worth colonizing financially, the first colonies might be funded by rich people who want to build their own little utopias.
 
That doesn't change the fact that some people moved to the colonies to escape something.

Poverty... unemployment... feudal servitude...
 
That doesn't change the fact that some people moved to the colonies to escape something.

Given that so far there is nothing in space worth colonizing financially, the first colonies might be funded by rich people who want to build their own little utopias.

I'll agree, given the emphasis on "some people". Most though saw it as an opportunity to strike it rich. There was another section of land carved out for those in debtors prison.

By by-and-large the New World was seen as something to be exploited. Like you'd mentioned, the ultra rich may want to build their own new world on Mars, But what to do when Branson Base goes to war with Musk Base (that might have a treaty with Bradbury Station)?

All that aside, if I were younger, single and with a slightly different skill set, if asked to go to Mars as part of an expeditionary group I'd probably do it.
 
By by-and-large the New World was seen as something to be exploited. Like you'd mentioned, the ultra rich may want to build their own new world on Mars, But what to do when Branson Base goes to war with Musk Base (that might have a treaty with Bradbury Station)?

That is the day, where I would wish to have studied international space law and get the chance to handle the civil processes as lawyer of any of the two.
 
That is the day, where I would wish to have studied international space law and get the chance to handle the civil processes as lawyer of any of the two.

"So, which country has jurisdiction here?"
"I have no idea."
"Dammit, what do we do then?"
"Let's ask philosophers!"
"Uh, I have Thomas Hobbes here: 'Treaties made without the sword are void.' "
"Fine, the first one to send up a sword wins."
"Deal!"
"Oh come on, you're known as ScrubX, you have no chance, do you?"
"Well, I fly on rocket fuel and not rubber!"
"A rubber was enough to get on with your..."
*wild brawl ensues*

Turns out the first spacesuit to have a leak has jurisdiction over competing Mars bases.
 
:rofl:
Mars can be reached, for that we've got proof. The technical aspects of getting there are (mostly) solved. Getting there to set up an infrastructure for so many people can be overcome with time (and money).

But too many type-As in one location is asking for trouble. I could imagine a military expedition having a better chance of success. There is an autocratic leadership that everyone understands. The chance of a royal cluster(ahem) still exists, but and order to "Do it, do it now!" would be carried out instead of a discussion about "Why?"

On the "civilian" mindset (since that is what I am now), there'd need to be some methodology of governing that many people. Even if scientists made up 99% of the population, there would still be turf wars over a finite set of resources.

Until O2 and H2O can be processed in situ, I just don't see many more than a few dozen members in a Mars expedition, far less than what Elon wants to pull off. I'll give the man credit, he has the wealth to pursue his dream. But I don't see it within my lifetime.
 
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Somehow didn't see this when it came out:

Billionaire space entrepreneur wants vegetarian-only colony on Mars.
Published time: January 09, 2013 00:26
http://rt.com/usa/space-mars-musk-people-595/

Bob Clark


This new dairy alternative is made from real milk proteins - but with no cows required.
The future is served.
JACINTA BOWLER 29 AUG 2016
http://www.sciencealert.com/this-ne...-real-milk-proteins-but-with-no-cows-required

Great news. I was curious as to how many animals we keep for food production and was dismayed by this graphic:

land_mammals.png


Also describe here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biomass_(ecology)#Global_biomass

With the recent research in producing lab grown beef, we may be able to eliminate animals for use for food entirely. This would be an improvement for agriculture since large tracts of land are used to maintain livestock.


Bob Clark
 
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Elon recently tweeted:

[ame="https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/776939304140414976"]Elon Musk on Twitter: "Turns out MCT can go well beyond Mars, so will need a new name...[/ame]

Also, there might be a name for the booster stage...

[ame="https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/776971939277438976"]Elon Musk on Twitter: "@andyzalk sounds like the right name for the rocket booster"[/ame]

Don't forget, the announcement of the Mars colonization architecture will be on September 27.
 
How likely is that we would see a manned flyby of Venus or at least a trojan asteroid with the same generation of vehicles before the Mars landings? NASA was planning some asteroid visits with the Orion capsule for the 2020s, IIRC.
 
Raptor engine test - this is what large scale methalox engine exhaust looks like:

[ame="http://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/780278836860628992"]Elon Musk on Twitter: "Mach diamonds https://t.co/TCX7ZGFnN0"[/ame]
 
Looks like the teams are busy keeping the deadlines of their boss, after all tomorrow is the day...
 
Tomorrow's going to be an incredible day for SpaceX. I hope it's enough to boost spirits after the AMOS failure.
 
Link to the Livestream : http://www.spacex.com/Mars

A video has already been posted on Facebook, looks more like classic science fiction.

 
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Big windows.... that isn't good for the 8 months of direct solar radiation, right?
 
Still I think, it would look cool in Orbiter.

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Does somebody see a livestream?
 
Still I think, it would look cool in Orbiter.

---------- Post added at 08:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:31 PM ----------

Does somebody see a livestream?
Here:

 

I meant.... does something happen there except the title screen?

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Did somebody else just think he accidentally landed in an ESC broadcast?

---------- Post added at 09:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:59 PM ----------

The acoustics of a German train station.

---------- Post added at 09:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:01 PM ----------

Damn, and I thought I have a huge problem letting my hands do something useful during presentations.

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Does somebody notice something strange?

SpaceX presents numbers of their launcher. Even fuel mass.
 
MCT booster stats
77.5 m long, 12 wide.
275 tons dry
6700 tons all up

42 Metholox engines prodicing a total of 128 MN thrust at sea level with an ISP of 318 seconds.

---------- Post added at 11:44 ---------- Previous post was at 11:39 ----------

MCT Lander:
49m long x 17m wide
Dry mass 150 tons
Propellant 1950 tons
Payload to Martian surface 400 tons

9 engines producing 31 MN, ISP 361

Addon Devs Assemble!
 
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