Project XR2 Ravenstar - Mk II

[Xyon]

No, the radiators are extended forward from the vertical stabilizers, and there are no solar panels on the XRs.

I thought those were the radiators, but I wasn't sure.

Anyway, they look damn cool. And compressible landing gear ftw!

I'm also loving that airbrake. Honestly, I don't know whether I'd be able to actually fly the thing or just sit in external viewpoint mode and ogle it for a while...

 

[garyw]

No, the radiators are extended forward from the vertical stabilizers, and there are no solar panels on the XRs.

neat. It's looking very swish and I love the rework of the cargo bay. :thumbup:

 

[n122vu]

Love the airbrake rework. XR2 has always reminded me a bit of a cross between an SR-71 and an F-14 (two of my favorite planes, btw). Very cool.

And compressible gear? Excuse me while I wipe the drool off my keyboard...

 

[River Crab]

Although the new air brake looks cool, it's not really efficient IMO. What would be more practical would be a system like on the F-22, where the elevons deflect up, the flappervators(?) deflect down, and the rudders deflect outward, seen here:

No extra hydraulic systems, less weight, and better airframe integrity. Although with the XR2, I don't know where to draw the line between looking cool or being well-integrated. If you really wanted to slow down, like on Mars or for aerocapture or something, you could have both?
Also, what are the "flappervators" really called?

Edit: Expect a STORM of posts from me in this thread.

Edit: Here comes the storm.

Ever since I found this thread the questions have been building up. The suspense! Ever since I brought the XR2 to dock with the ISS on my own (no autopilot!), I've been raving about how it's so awesome, and of course no one knows what I'm talking about. "Yo DGIV, I'm real happy for you, and I'mma let you finish, but the XR2 is the greatest machine of all time!" So I finally registered for OF just for this thread.
I'm going to just let it all out now, so sorry if some of these questions are repeats.

Will the MkII replace the XR2? I will always love the original, and I hope it will still be supported so they it can be used in conjunction in our scenarios. Also, that would mean superior scenario quality without sacrificing variety.

Would it ever be possible to map the SCRAM to a joystick axis, or map the engines individually? I really want to be able to control everything without mouse clicks. Even with some kind of workaround program- I want to build a simpit at some point, and the STS is out of style.

If the docking bay port is not actually a dock, could there be a dock payload? Something that would take up a payload slot and pass UMMUs through to a docking port on top or on the back, kind of like a PMA.

Even better, could this be combined with the CHM? Currently the CHM is technically just deadweight. Combined, it could then be used as a Hab/logistics Module, a shuttle-style docking port (but not an airlock, just one door), and, when jettisoned, could be a sort of space rescue unit (like ISRU). This would also silence all the cries of "I want ejection!" (though it wouldn't be the main purpose.)

Also, could the CHM have an interior? That would be awesome, albeit unnecessary.

How about an economy-class passenger cargo, with windows on top (like Skylon)? For 2001 style transfers to stations in LEO and for fast suborbital flights.

How about a few scenario-based config parameters? Something like the DGIV, where it's possible to have different versions in the same scenario, or at least the same Orbiter installation. Currently the XR2 config affects all scenarios, so you can't have a realistic 2050's LEO Ravenstar in one scenario, and have a ridiculous 30th century "Grand Solar System Tour" Ravenstar in another. Currently this really bugs me as it requires replacing the config file every time you want to play a different scenario. Some people see the XR2 as an impossible dream vessel, while some see it as a foreseeable future spacecraft. These people would be both satisfied by more advanced optional configurations.
Could different base configurations be available? I know it's meant to be expanded through the cargo bay, but sometimes we won't need 12-14 extra seats, I usually don't. For example, by changing the config, you could replace the 12 rearward seats with main or scram fuel tanks, leaving a tunnel for transfer to the bay, and remove some windows from the mesh.
Possibly, you could allow config of the interior contents seperately, so you could choose main fuel on port and seats on starboard, or LOx on port and main fuel on starboard, etc. That would be awesome.
Some things I'd imagine people would want to configure:

Replace port rear seating with main fuel, SCRAM fuel, or LOx.
Replace starboard rear seating with main fuel, SCRAM fuel, or LOx.
Replace rear seating with living space for 5-8 people(For long voyages).
Options for a heavy Earth TPS or a lighter Mars TPS. Currently this is technically possible but cumbersome to change.
Replace the SCRAMs with fuel tanks, for vertical launches/airdrops or Mars/Moon operations, or just to use as a Deltaglider. Few mesh changes necessary for this.
Remove hover to save weight/realism. Few mesh changes necessary.
Remove retros to save weight/realism. Few mesh changes necessary.
Remove inner airlock door to save weight.
Remove ability to open nose cone to save weight/realism- crew would transfer through aforementioned CHM docking port. Few mesh changes necessary.

All the options would, if specified in the scenario, override the necessary XR2 config parameters.
I'm hoping for the dockable ummu CHM and some scenario parameters. If even a few of these were possible, the XR2 would be THE spacecraft for Orbiter. NO MORE DELTAGLIDERS FOR ME. I know some of the suggestions probably go against your "One single stage and nothing else" methodology, and some may violate the common framework/idea of the XR Series, or be too hard/complicated to code. However, with the things the Altea team has done, I think you have the skills to do anything.
And don't forget to HAIL !

 

[dbeachy1]

Will the MkII replace the XR2? I will always love the original, and I hope it will still be supported so they it can be used in conjunction in our scenarios. Also, that would mean superior scenario quality without sacrificing variety.

Don't worry, the XR2 Mk I isn't going away: it will continue to be supported/updated just like the rest of the XR fleet. The XR2 Mk II's DLL will be XR2RavenstarMkII.dll, so it can exist alongside the XR2 Mk I just fine.

How about a few scenario-based config parameters ...

That's on my list. It will take some thought and a fair amount of work, though, because a number of config parameters are currently required very early at vessel creation time, which is well before the scenario file has been parsed. What I'm thinking is to support a new optional parameter in the scenario file like, "XRConfigOverride foo.cfg", where 'foo.cfg' is the pathname/filename of the configuration file underneath Orbiter's 'Config' directory to be used to override any default settings in the main .cfg file.

Right now I'm still hard at work on the next XR release candidate versions, which will include XRVesselCtrl 2.0 as well as a demo module for that.

Anything beyond that will probably have to wait until after the XR2 Mk II. Gotta manage scope, or the vessel never gets finished...

 

[Dambuster]

Just to check (sorry if it's already been answered/asked in this thread - searched but didn't find it), but will the Mk II have a (fully) functional virtual cockpit?

 

[dbeachy1]

Yes, the Mk II will have a fully-functional "glass panel" virtual cockpit. i.e., it will have flat glass panels with displays and touch controls on them.

 

[Arrowstar]

A little work on a new airbrake its unfinished so i've left it mostly in shadow i was going to make split rudders, but at the moment i prefer this, a little bit like an f-14's airbrake. We should be able to show the actuators working here to push it up, and hopefully the landing gear will all work properly in the sim, including as doug reassures me, compressible landing gear. swish.

<pic attached>

Do I see an alien on the windshield? :lol:

Looks great!

 

[Izack]

I think I fell in love with those new sliding radiators...I will restate my, er, statement that this is the nicest bird in all of fiction.

Also, I already have a dog named Luke.

 

[ArchKaine]

Hey guys,

I've been floating these forums for a while without commenting.

I have to say that I agree with Izack when they said that the XR-2 is the single nicest looking air/spacecraft ever made (in my opinion, real or otherwise).

I absolutely cannot wait to see this bird ready to download.

Anyway, Doug and Coolhand. You guys rock. Thanks for making this bird, and the entire XR series available to all of us.

Need a tester for the release candidates? I'm game

ArchKaine

 

[Coolhand]

Well the new radiator should be much more effective. the old one radiates a lot onto the vertical stabilisers. Anything that recieves much heat from this one should be at a pretty glancing angle - like the wingtips here.

River crab, welcome to OF. thanks for all the suggestions, Doug and myself have considered so many ideas for the XR2 many of which similar to ideas you've suggested. It's really just a question of time and prioritising, we can't spend our whole lives working on it, we have to fit it around other commitments. and you eventually want a ship to play with in the game. Some things you can do for yourself tho, if you want a different cargo module, you can make one for example. You want a lighter TPS? make a new skin and edit the mass... Of course a true martian variant would be quite different but you're unlikely to see it, as the standard one works just fine on mars.

The ship is mainly designed to be something that can take you quickly, with no transfering of vehicles from a destination on the earth to the moon so it has to carry everything with it to do that safely. It takes fee paying passengers who pay a premium to get there quickly, or would be owned as a corporation might own a private jet... Perhaps you're a Helium 3 trillionaire who can't stand living on the moon but needs to go there fairly often. Flexibility is the key though, If you strip out the fuel tanks you can have a larger crew compartment for shorter hops to LEO with more passengers, or hypersonic surface to surface transport. I'm not sure why you would need more fuel though, since it carries enough at maximum load to go from the earth to the moon and really if I were going any further, i'd dock Ravenstar to something larger and tow it.

oh and btw, luke's a fine name, but i didn't take my name from that Coolhand...i've never even seen the movie

 

[River Crab]

Wow, what a warm reception!
After going way back into this thread, I see a lot of stuff I've suggested already talked about.

Anyway, the scenario-based config override should satisfy most of what I've been wanting. As for wanting the extra fuel, I don't really recognize Naquadah as a substance (or a compound). I know the XR2 is not meant to be realistic, but don't want my XR2 to just be a nicer looking DG-S or XR1. It really sets itself apart!

I think the XR2, as a semi-realistic variant, has the potential for a broad scope of versatility through specialization. That would be better to discuss in this thread: http://orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?t=10246
I do agree with the idea of "One Single Stage," but for some settings that would mean removing seats or hover. One Single Stage for the moon is obviously going to be different than One Single Stage for LEO.

The big things I'm suggesting require the source, mainly replacing seats with tanks. That requires changing the mesh, removing UMMU seats, and shifting CoG accordingly. All the other things have indeed been discussed before.

Don't do this now. Patch it later, if possible. But yes, get 'er done first. :yes:
XR2 Mk II > XR0 > XR2 improvements.

Oh, and what of the XR7? Is there any concept of that? Looks like you might have some competition...
http://orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?t=14960
You might have to buy them out.

Currently the XR2 doesn't support UMMU transfer to the bay.
I understand the XR0 will have this capability. How will that work? Since the vessel isn't technically docked.

I think I'll want to make that better CHM and passenger cargo I was talking about. Or someone with more skills.

Thanks for the welcome, and sorry for posting as if dbeachy and Coolhand are the same person. And if my post is too long. Again.


And for everyone waiting in anticipation: What will YOU do with the Mk II when it comes out? How could you use it differently than the Mk I? Scenarios, people!

 

[Keatah]

Maybe with enough discussion of the pros and cons and why's and why not's we can hash out *ALL* the engineering details; and end up with a real-life xr2! Yeh?

 

[River Crab]

Loving the new skin! Will this be the Mk II default? Black and white looks more believable to me, and I like that black around the cockpit.
Although, I'd suggest making the bay doors a less saturated blue-greyish, and doing away with the red stripes- they make it look smaller.

But hey, you're the pro.

 

[tblaxland]

Mod note: The posts regarding the physics of heat transfer have been moved to a new thread: http://www.orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?t=15688

 

[halcyon]

God I've been waiting for this since the XR2 Mk1 came out in 2008.
And why?

Yes we've seen a lot of cool ships developed, with fancy models and retractable gear and moving parts and this and that.
But you know what the MK 2 is going to do for the community that you can't get with what we've had for years and years?

The virtual cockpit.
Total immersion (especially if you have TrackIR).

THAT'S what keeps me on the edge of my seat waiting for this. Putting the pilot right in the cockpit in a 3D environment is what will set the new standard for Orbiter spacecraft.
It's why anyone who's played FSX will tell you once there's a 3D VC there's no going back. 2D is so....1990's.
For god sakes when the MK 2 comes out, I'm going to extract the VC into a liquid form and jab an IV in my arm.

So when I say "thank you" to Doug and Coolhand, it is the biggest #@$!'ing thank you in the history of modern flight sims.
And since the history of modern flight sims hasn't included space flight until Orbiter, this will take it to a whole new level.

So Doug, and Coolhand...
Thank you.

 

[Coolhand]

here's some work on the mk 2 interior. And i wouldn't consider any texturing, inside or out complete at this stage... some of it probably wont be looked at properly until its back in the game as the ship is being tested.

 

[autopilotman]

small question, are the panel lights gonna be reflected in the windows in game? it looks awsome!

 

[Coolhand]

Halcyon, cheers, the VC is the whole reason i started the project a couple of years ago. With the upgrade now it should also have some of the nicest detail of any mesh in the game... nearly everything has been improved in some way.

autopilotman, if it will work then yes. I think there was a reason why we didn't do this last time which might now be solved... It should simply be a matter of baking the reflection into the texture for the glass, which should also include small scratches, perhaps some frosting or a little muck around the edges of the glass.

 

[autopilotman]

ok, thanks. can't wait