General Question Velcro: Does it work?

[Astro SG Wise]

Now, this title may be a little vauge, but a lot may read it and shoot here to say it does. Anyway, I was wondering if Velcro coding works with rockets that aren't necessarily velcro rockets themselves. Let's say I wanted to use velcro to attach payload to the Delta IV Heavy. Can I do it? I have tried to get something on it that only has a .cfg. What do I do?

 

[Urwumpe]

No, the payload handling is part of the vessel. But you can create a Velcro Delta IV Heavy.

 

[Astro SG Wise]

Yeah, that's what I thought, because the EEVL is ugly, but the separate launcher can't take my payload. When I use Universal Cargo Deck, the whole thing messes up because on the Delta IV Launch Vehicles addon, when you click J, the center of the rocket changes, moving the UCD up along the Z axis. Any ideas otherwise? I was just trying to get francisdrake's CEV ontop.

 

[BruceJohnJennerLawso]

Such an amusing thread name if you take it literally :lol:

I think velcro rockets can only carry payloads, although a UCD equipped vessel can carry anything as a payload.

Velcro *might* be able to act as a strapon stage to the DIV Heavy, its been a while since I read the velcro docs pdf all the way through, but I think that was in there.

 

[N_Molson]

Velcro is quite flexible, you can definitively do things such has boosting a .dll rocket with it, or adding extra droptanks. Be sure to play around with the demonstration scenarios that come with the package.

 

[sputnik]

Velcro *might* be able to act as a strapon stage to the DIV Heavy, its been a while since I read the velcro docs pdf all the way through, but I think that was in there.

That should work. You'd have to set JETT_ON_MECO 0 so that it doesn't leave when the strap-ons do. Have the Velcro payload carrier be a strap-on of infinitesimal weight. You'd have to F3 to it to jettison.
But you'd have to persuade the DIV Heavy to fly without a fairing. Don't know that we can do that....

 

[orbitingpluto]

If you don't like the meshes, there little stopping you from making your own, or borrowing someone else's meshes and replacing the originals.

How would one do this, you might ask? Well, it doesn't even take programming knowledge, just finding the line in a .cfg file that points at a mesh to use, and changing it to point at the new mesh. Sounds simple enough, right?


DISCLAIMER: I'm not responsible for any ruckus in the aftermath of an upload to Orbiter Hangar that pairs someone else's meshes with Velcro Rockets originally made by Sputnik. It's not like I advocated doing any such thing.:shifty:

 

[BruceJohnJennerLawso]

That should work. You'd have to set JETT_ON_MECO 0 so that it doesn't leave when the strap-ons do. Have the Velcro payload carrier be a strap-on of infinitesimal weight. You'd have to F3 to it to jettison.
But you'd have to persuade the DIV Heavy to fly without a fairing. Don't know that we can do that....

Thanks, I was pretty sure that option existed, but not quite

I think this was demonstrated in the DG with Ratos scenario. IIRC, it can also be done for cross feeding fuel from an attached stage.

 

[Astro SG Wise]

If you don't like the meshes, there little stopping you from making your own, or borrowing someone else's meshes and replacing the originals.

How would one do this, you might ask? Well, it doesn't even take programming knowledge, just finding the line in a .cfg file that points at a mesh to use, and changing it to point at the new mesh. Sounds simple enough, right?

So, how to make a mesh, first on the list. I have been trying this for a really long time with about 10 different payload lines, but I guess that was a bad idea because the Delta IV Heavy has one specific payload line. The first real problem was getting Orion into the payload without specifying a singular mesh. Anyway, making my own mesh would be great, but don't I need some sort of Anim8or thing?

---------- Post added at 02:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:51 AM ----------

I think velcro rockets can only carry payloads, although a UCD equipped vessel can carry anything as a payload.

That's great and all, but when I put the base ship on the Delta IV, it shifts when I detach the second stage from the core. The center of the ship specified DELTA IV is moved, therefore, the payload with a core ship of DELTA IV moves as well, messing up the whole idea. I have had so many times when I thought I had it figured out, then I realized it didn't work for so-so reason. Oh well.:compbash:

 

[BruceJohnJennerLawso]

That's great and all, but when I put the base ship on the Delta IV, it shifts when I detach the second stage from the core. The center of the ship specified DELTA IV is moved, therefore, the payload with a core ship of DELTA IV moves as well, messing up the whole idea. I have had so many times when I thought I had it figured out, then I realized it didn't work for so-so reason. Oh well.:compbash:

Im pretty sure the DIV Heavy variant you're talking about doesnt use UCD (Universal Cargo Deck), rather some sort of config file parsing, & directly creating payloads & upper stages at run time. A booster like Themis-A uses UCD & would work properly with carrying a velcro upper payload.

You wouldnt necessarily need to make meshes for this I dont think, assuming you have a payload mesh (Orion capsule I think?)

Just try

[ame="http://orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=3462"]http://orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=3462[/ame]

In velcro with your payload. The meshes arent quite as nice, but oh well...

Yes, anim8or is one tool that can be used in creating meshes for Orbiter. Basically, to create msh files, you need to create your mesh in an external modelling program (Blender, Anim8or, 3dsmax, many options...) export it as a common model format (3ds, obj, etc.) & convert that to an msh.

If you go the anim8or route, the conversion to msh format is done through a program (its hosted on vinkas site I think), or if you go with blender, theres a plugin that automatically does it for you, probably the better choice. Anim8or is a bit simpler to use and easier to learn than blender, but Blender is a much more powerful software, updated more frequently, open source, cross platform, etc.

 

[romanasul]

Hey Bruce, what happened to your Shuttle D? I can't find it on orbithangar anymore.

 

[Astro SG Wise]

Im pretty sure the DIV Heavy variant you're talking about doesnt use UCD (Universal Cargo Deck), rather some sort of config file parsing, & directly creating payloads & upper stages at run time. A booster like Themis-A uses UCD & would work properly with carrying a velcro upper payload.

Not exactly. I think you are getting Payload Manager and Universal Cargo Deck mixed up. Delta IV is not equipped with payload manager, but UCD is the invisible vessel that can attach itself to other vehicles. The problem I have with UCD is when it attaches to the Delta IV, the rocket detaches the second stage and the center of gravity changes, moving the UCD attached to that new center. If the Delta IV heavy could somehow have it's own Payload Manager option like the Themis-A, that would be pretty sweet. I have been able to make the Orion vehicle become a payload on the Delta IV Heavy Velcro version, but not the Delta IV Launch Vehicles 3.0. That version has better graphics, and would be the prefered one. Anyway, does Anim8or or Blender cost anything?

 

[BruceJohnJennerLawso]

Not exactly. I think you are getting Payload Manager and Universal Cargo Deck mixed up. Delta IV is not equipped with payload manager, but UCD is the invisible vessel that can attach itself to other vehicles. The problem I have with UCD is when it attaches to the Delta IV, the rocket detaches the second stage and the center of gravity changes, moving the UCD attached to that new center. If the Delta IV heavy could somehow have it's own Payload Manager option like the Themis-A, that would be pretty sweet. I have been able to make the Orion vehicle become a payload on the Delta IV Heavy Velcro version, but not the Delta IV Launch Vehicles 3.0. That version has better graphics, and would be the prefered one. Anyway, does Anim8or or Blender cost anything?

Ah, yeah, sorry, UCD is the invisible vessel implementation of Payload manager. IIRC UCD works okay in some situations (carrying a simple payload on a dg), but sometimes has weird behaviours, especially with COG shifting.

The Delta IV heavy found here (which Im pretty sure you're referring to)

[ame="http://orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=5556"]http://orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=5556[/ame]

uses its own custom payload system (spawns a given vessel cfg from the input the user gives it, and similar setup for the mesh while payload is attached). I dont see a particular reason why this shouldnt work with your Orion capsule setup. Can you post a link to the version you're using of the capsule so that I can get a better understanding of the problem?

Both Anim8or and Blender are free software, a quick google search will give you the links. Blender is all round a much superior software, but Anim8or is still a somewhat handy tool to use, only a few megs in size for just the executable, so it fits quite nicely on a memory stick. The texture mapping process for it is quite clunky though.

---------- Post added at 20:09 ---------- Previous post was at 20:05 ----------

Hey Bruce, what happened to your Shuttle D? I can't find it on orbithangar anymore.

I ahh, I felt like it wasnt a very good add-on, & the development on it kinda hit a brick wall. I just dont have the time to work on it, with school & a certain other project taking up all of my time, & I really felt like it wasnt a very good download (I hate leaving outdated, unfinished projects up on Orbithangar as clutter). I'll try to remember to upload a copy of the last version to dropbox, & insert a link in my sig.

 

[Astro SG Wise]

Ah, yeah, sorry, UCD is the invisible vessel implementation of Payload manager. IIRC UCD works okay in some situations (carrying a simple payload on a dg), but sometimes has weird behaviours, especially with COG shifting.

The Delta IV heavy found here (which Im pretty sure you're referring to)

http://orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=5556

uses its own custom payload system (spawns a given vessel cfg from the input the user gives it, and similar setup for the mesh while payload is attached). I dont see a particular reason why this shouldnt work with your Orion capsule setup. Can you post a link to the version you're using of the capsule so that I can get a better understanding of the problem?

I am using the Ares I/Orion CEV combination by francisdrake.
[ame="http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=4437"]CEV-Orion[/ame]

Yes, UCD has some really weird behaviors. Sometimes, I will fly a rocket, and it will start spinning uncontrollably. :facepalm:

Anyway, the problem is that I can't find a specific mesh file to put in the code.
(example)
CONFIG Deltaglider/Delta IV
MESH DeltaIV/vessels

When I try, I find Orion has about 10 different meshes, some of which are CEV-Orion-Launch of CEV-Orion-CM, but they are not the specific mesh to match the .cfg named CEV-Orion.

 

[BruceJohnJennerLawso]

I am using the Ares I/Orion CEV combination by francisdrake.
CEV-Orion

Yes, UCD has some really weird behaviors. Sometimes, I will fly a rocket, and it will start spinning uncontrollably. :facepalm:

Anyway, the problem is that I can't find a specific mesh file to put in the code.
(example)
CONFIG Deltaglider/Delta IV
MESH DeltaIV/vessels

When I try, I find Orion has about 10 different meshes, some of which are CEV-Orion-Launch of CEV-Orion-CM, but they are not the specific mesh to match the .cfg named CEV-Orion.

Ah, the capsule uses multiple meshes. That *might* be fixable using meshwizard to assemble the meshes together as one, but thats a lot of work.

Maybe this would work for you? (also has UMMU & UCGO support! :thumbup

[ame="http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=6621"]http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=6621[/ame]

 

[gattispilot]

this is what I used in my sls:
Orion:CEV-Orion\CEV-Orion

 

[Astro SG Wise]

this is what I used in my sls:
Orion:CEV-Orion\CEV-Orion

How did you do it! That's exactly what I want! It doesn't work when I put that there.

---------- Post added at 04:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:08 PM ----------

Ah, the capsule uses multiple meshes. That *might* be fixable using meshwizard to assemble the meshes together as one, but thats a lot of work.

Meshwizard? Sounds simple.

 

[gattispilot]

If you look at the SLS scenarios with the Orion you can see how.

 

[Astro SG Wise]

Sweet. I got to try it again. I am thinking of starting an Orion EFT-1 addon, but to do so, I had to find some way of connecting Orion to the Delta IV Heavy. I am also thinking of getting Blender, and I have francis drake's permission to use his Orion addon.

 

[gattispilot]

Depending which Delta IV you use You should be able to do it.

I use Anim8or to make meshes. I got permission also for the thrusters,...