The Landlubbers Battleship Thread - Now with 50% less cordite

[K_Jameson]

Speaking again of Bismarck and related facts... well, the Hood was a real beauty:

 

[Urwumpe]

Well, the Fuso also made a cute sight after its upgrade between the wars.

Sadly, her performance in WW2 was pretty poor.

 

[K_Jameson]

To me, the "pagoda" on the Fuso was pretty exaggerated and with a weird shape.

More equilibrated on the Kongo class, that also had good performances across the war (at least for ships launched in 1912)

I've also a soft spot for the Nagato:

ahem...

Her and Mutsu was probably the most powerful of the "Big Seven" battleships and also the most powerful battleships in the world until the commissioning of ship as Bismarck and North Carolina.

OK OK... this is Mutsu:

 

[APDAF]

HMS Warspite accept no substitutes...

Really though shame the Tosa was never able to be finished...

 

[Evil_Onyx]

My Great Uncle served on three battleships (technically one was a battlecruiser) during his career.


He served first aboard HMS Repulse, and survived its sinking by been on medical leave when she sailed for the last time.

Then he served aboard the HMS Nelson until after the Normandy landings when the Nelson went to Philadelphia to repair damage from hitting two mines.

He spent the rest of the war ashore, until the HMS Vanguard began commissioning. On which he served until retiring. He was a Logistics Officer.

According to him the vanguard was the best of the ships he served on, HMS Repulse was old and modernisation had not improved her operational performance much. HMS Nelson had serviceability problems, she spent 22 mouths of the war laid up for repairs and refits. The Vanguard was new and used proven kit and experience from other ships to make her the pinnacle of the battleship technology, she was just too late.


Before the second world war the effectiveness of carrier strike groups had yet to be proven so it makes perfect sense for the navys of the day to continue to build ships they know worked.

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I would add that he never saw the recommissioned Iowa's.

 

[Notebook]

I wouldn't say it was a major carrier task force, and it was returning to port under strange circumstances.
It was definitely surprised though,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Glorious

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Glorious#The_sinking

N.

 

[K_Jameson]

HMS Warspite accept no substitutes...

I will never understand how it was allowed the demolition of ships as the Warspite or the USS Enterprise (CV-6) instead of their preservation as museum ships. It was a real shame.

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Really though shame the Tosa was never able to be finished...

Surely IJN Kaga has found a more reasonable use as fleet carrier.

Same applies at the two Lexington-class battlecruisers.

 

[Urwumpe]

I will never understand how it was allowed the demolition of ships as the Warspite or the USS Enterprise (CV-6) instead of their preservation as museum ships. It was a real shame.

I can, because preservation is expensive. But I am really disappointed that the HMS Vanguard disappeared. I would rather have seen the Belfast in tiny pieces than the Vanguard, if I would have had to choose. IMHO Vanguard or Warspite should be in London now. Just like I am disappointed that not even a single ship of the German Navy from WW1 survived Scapa Flow.

At least a submarine of that era still exists.

http://www.deutsches-museum.de/sammlungen/verkehr/schifffahrt/u1/

 

[K_Jameson]

I can, because preservation is expensive. But I am really disappointed that the HMS Vanguard disappeared.

Preservation is expensive and this is why should be reserved to vessels that truly deserves it, because has some story to tell. For example the USS South Dakota deserved the preservation much more of the USS Wisconsin, although in this case I can see that the strategic value of the Iowa battleships after the WWII was way higher than the SoDaks.

A ship as the Enterprise, with her superb WWII service, the more representative US ship of the war and perhaps of the entire history of the war, should have been absolutely saved from demolition.

Vanguard, although a fine ship, had zero importance in the history of the Royal Navy (except the fact that it was a dinosaur that lived out of his time) and thus I think her demolition was the right move.

Speaking of German ships, I think that maybe at least the Prinz Eugen could have been saved.

---------- Post added at 07:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:06 PM ----------

Then he served aboard the HMS Nelson until after the Normandy landings when the Nelson went to Philadelphia to repair damage from hitting two mines.

The two ships in the background with the single big funnel are the Barham and the Malaya?

---------- Post added at 07:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:17 PM ----------

Speaking of the Enterprise, I've read a joke about this topic: "What if Japan won the Battle of Midway?"

Response: "the sole consequence would be that the spaceship of Star Trek would have had a different name". :lol:

(I know that the 1701 took her name from CVN-65, but CVN-65, in turn, took her name from CV-6...)

 

[Urwumpe]

Vanguard, although a fine ship, had zero importance in the history of the Royal Navy (except the fact that it was a dinosaur that lived out of his time) and thus I think her demolition was the right move.

Not quite true. She was not taking part in WW2, but she had a lot of significance in the 15 years that followed. From being NATO flag ship in the cold war to hosting the royal family. She took part in the Korean war, just like the Belfast. But she was also the last battleship and can be considered the ultimate state of the art.

The Belfast on the other hand did not see a significant career. It was just preserved by chance. It spent most of WW2 getting repaired after striking a mine. It was taking part in the battle of the North Cape as flagship. She was also around in Operation Overlord. But the role was hardly significant in both battles. In North Cape, she was celebrated for firing starshells and tracking the Scharnhorst with radar, while other ships saw more action. She was not even damaged (does that count as cowardize? No? Damn?)

Of course I am biased.

 

[n122vu]

[/COLOR]Speaking of the Enterprise, I've read a joke about this topic: "What if Japan won the Battle of Midway?"

Response: "the sole consequence would be that the spaceship of Star Trek would have had a different name". :lol:

Indeed. It would have likely been named the Kobayashi Maru, and the most-dreaded training test at Starfleet would have required venturing into the Romulan Neutral Zone to rescue the disabled freighter Enterprise.

 

[K_Jameson]

Not quite true. It was not taking part in WW2, but it it had a lot of significance in the 15 years that followed. From being NATO flag ship in the cold war to hosting the royal family. It took part in the Korean war, just like the Belfast.

A luxury boat. Frankly I don't see all that importance. OK it was a beautiful ship, but not much else... Sorry to hurt your feelings :tiphat:

OK I found also the personification of the Vanguard:

:lol:

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The Belfast on the other hand did not see a significant career.

I read that was saved from scrapping only because of the insistence of her former captain...

---------- Post added at 07:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:45 PM ----------

Indeed. It would have likely been named the Kobayashi Maru, and the most-dreaded training test at Starfleet would have required venturing into the Romulan Neutral Zone to rescue the disabled freighter Enterprise.

Your statement implies that if Japan won Midway, it also won the war.
I think instead that even a victory of the Imperial Fleet at Midway would not have a great long-term meaning. Japan had zero chance to match the industrial capability of USA. From a certain point onward, simply US Navy commissioned much more ships than IJN could ever hope to sink. The true meaning of the joke was just this: for the outcome of the war, no matter who would won at Midway.

Admiral Yamamoto knew this fact and, realistically, refused to make any prevision about the trend of the war after the first six months of relative advantage.

 

[Urwumpe]

I read that was saved from scrapping only because of the insistence of her former captain...

Should happen more often. :lol:

At least the Wilhelm Bauer was preserved here, though no battleship at all.

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Admiral Yamamoto knew this fact and, realistically, refused to make any prevision about the trend of the war after the first six months of relative advantage.

Yeah, they played for a draw. Using the first months to deal as much damage as possible to the US Pacific Fleet and gain as much territory as possible, so the USA can accept a correction of the spheres of influence.

There would have been some chance to reach this state by winning Midway and threatening the west coast quickly. But there was no realistic chance to win against the USA in a total war. The USA would outbuild them on the continent and Japan could not prevent this. Japan would also never have a realistic chance to conquer the Panama canal.

 

[K_Jameson]

At least the Wilhelm Bauer was preserved here, though no battleship at all.

A battleship was actually revived: I present to you the Bismarck!

OK, OK I'm exaggerating here... :rofl:

 

[Urwumpe]

A battleship was actually revived: I present to you the Bismarck!

OK, OK I'm exaggerating here... :rofl:

Sorry - I think Cosplay Haute Couture is really some decades too weird.
:facepalm:

 

[K_Jameson]

That image along with others is taken from a very, very weird internet game and anime show called Kancolle: young girls with the soul of old WWII warships, that fight a mysterious enemy emerged from the sea...

It don't make much sense, but for curiosity I've watched the anime show (it was only twelve episodes) and besides of all the nonsense it was really full of accurate historical links and homages (one of the funniest: a girl called Yamato that work as maitresse of an hotel... the Hotel Yamato). I've learned some of them just from the show. Surely the autors knew the matter.

 

[Urwumpe]

I ........ have doubts.

Still, maybe the series contains more interesting stuff than the few Sabaton songs about naval battles. :rofl:

 

[K_Jameson]

I ........ have doubts.

Maybe not, but admittedly was fun to hear Kongou (one of the most popular characters) speak an hilarious half-japanese-english because in the real life the battleship Kongo was actually built in UK... :lol:

 

[Urwumpe]

Maybe not, but admittedly was fun to hear Kongou (one of the most popular characters) speak an hilarious half-japanese-english because in the real life the battleship Kongo was actually built in UK... :lol:

Well, wasn't a bad deal for Japan, AFAIR, their oldest still preserved warship was also made in Britain.

 

[Andy44]

Speaking of the Enterprise, I've read a joke about this topic: "What if Japan won the Battle of Midway?"

Response: "the sole consequence would be that the spaceship of Star Trek would have had a different name". :lol:

(I know that the 1701 took her name from CVN-65, but CVN-65, in turn, took her name from CV-6...)