SSU Development thread (4.0 to 5.0) [DEVELOPMENT HALTED DUE TIME REQUIREMENTS!]

[GLS]

Can you show me these issues with the tail? I just checked myself and didn't note any issues. No holes or anything.

Looking up at the aft side of the tip: missing face on the left (starboard on vehicle) and not very simmetrical...

(and I just noticed this one)
Looking aft between the tip and the panels: missing rounded end on the left (starboard on the vehicle) that causes a larger gap at the top of the RSB panels when viewing the vehicle from the starboard side.

Plus the useless faces inside the panels (didn't check anywhere else).

 

[Urwumpe]

Did you check the big diagrams DaveS posted?

I think we are talking about the same diagrams, yes.

Its just a bit hard to check because the information about the MCAs is not stored in one place. The power supply, control and telemetry side of the MCAs is stored in the MCA drawings, the actual relay setup on the other hand is in the Star tracker door drawing. Similar for the Active Vent System.

Generally, the good thing is: The drawing shows the AC relay logic exactly the same way as I drew it in my notes a few years ago, without knowledge of those diagrams. Just some small amplifier symbols more.

 

[GLS]

About the RSB panels: judging from the diagrams, I think they are flush against each other when closed, and the mesh has only their aft ends together.

---------- Post added at 03:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:36 PM ----------

More mesh issues:
> there are gaps between the sides and the bottom of the inboard elevons;
> there are gaps in the aft face of the wings, between the elevons and the aft compartment and also between the inboard and outboard elevons;
> the body flap base doesn't fit well into the aft compartment
> the body flap seems a bit buried into its base

 

[DaveS]

About the RSB panels: judging from the diagrams, I think they are flush against each other when closed, and the mesh has only their aft ends together.

---------- Post added at 03:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:36 PM ----------

More mesh issues:
> there are gaps between the sides and the bottom of the inboard elevons;
> there are gaps in the aft face of the wings, between the elevons and the aft compartment and also between the inboard and outboard elevons;
> the body flap base doesn't fit well into the aft compartment
> the body flap seems a bit buried into its base

Are you sure you're using the right revision? It should be revision 2852 if you check the Subversion tab of the file properties of Orbiter.msh. There's no gaps between the elevons and the bodyflap is where it is supposed to be.

 

[GLS]

Are you sure you're using the right revision? It should be revision 2852 if you check the Subversion tab of the file properties of Orbiter.msh. There's no gaps between the elevons and the bodyflap is where it is supposed to be.

The trunk is at r2857 here.
Here is a view showing the gap between the side and bottom faces of the LIE, between the aft face and bottom face of the left wing, and also the body flap issues.

 

[Donamy]

This is what happens when you try to fit a part to an existing texture by just moving an sizing vertices. Parts get deformed and separated.

---------- Post added at 06:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:20 PM ----------

Why is there a separate chute section on the tail base? Is this needed ?

 

[DaveS]

I have checked in an updated orbiter mesh that should fix the issues reported by GLS.

 

[GLS]

I have checked in an updated orbiter mesh that should fix the issues reported by GLS.

There are still holes between that edge border and the tail sides, but it's much better now.
The holes on the aft face of the wings (between both elevons and also between the elevons and the aft compartment are still there, but inboard side of the LIE is now closed, but the outboard side still has a hole.

The body flap is even worst... I'm seeing faces inside things that for sure don't help to line things up.. can I clean things up?

Why is there a separate chute section on the tail base? Is this needed ?

We need 2 tails because the bottom of the original one was changed to allow the drag chute.
Just checked both tails, and the original tail is wrong. It appears like the "new tail" except for the drag chute. The bottom should be flat. Also, the drag chute "box" doesn't fit the tail on the sides and aft, and also has faces inside for no reason.

---------- Post added at 07:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:52 PM ----------

Also, mapping of the bottom part of the outboard RSB panel is a bit short, and no black tiles show at the bottom (very visible on the inside part when the SB is open).

 

[Donamy]

I think it's time to have a finalized mesh and texture, to avoid this confusion.

I know you need different textures for different orbiters, but they all have doors, windows and such, that are exactly in the same areas. There should be a main texture that can be used on all, to size things up.

 

[Urwumpe]

I think it's time to have a finalized mesh and texture, to avoid this confusion.

Yeah, its doubtful we will see a change to the STS in the future. :hmm:


But we might want to update the mesh from time to time, should we get better possibilities with Orbiter or the rendering client.



Still, no reason to not have something like a "reference mesh" and a "development mesh", and avoiding changes to the reference mesh until the development mesh becomes the new standard.

 

[DaveS]

There are still holes between that edge border and the tail sides, but it's much better now.
The holes on the aft face of the wings (between both elevons and also between the elevons and the aft compartment are still there, but inboard side of the LIE is now closed, but the outboard side still has a hole.

The body flap is even worst... I'm seeing faces inside things that for sure don't help to line things up.. can I clean things up?


We need 2 tails because the bottom of the original one was changed to allow the drag chute.
Just checked both tails, and the original tail is wrong. It appears like the "new tail" except for the drag chute. The bottom should be flat. Also, the drag chute "box" doesn't fit the tail on the sides and aft, and also has faces inside for no reason.

---------- Post added at 07:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:52 PM ----------

Also, mapping of the bottom part of the outboard RSB panel is a bit short, and no black tiles show at the bottom (very visible on the inside part when the SB is open).

The mesh issues should be addressed now. The reason for the wrong looking textures is that the orbiter is mapped to suit Wolf's hi-res photo-realistic textures. As those are different to ours, it makes ours incompatible in certain areas. The best solution would be for us to include lower resolution versions of those textures, this of course hinges on Wolf granting us permission to do so.

---------- Post added at 10:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:00 PM ----------

But we might want to update the mesh from time to time, should we get better possibilities with Orbiter or the rendering client.

This is what is happening now. We have gotten access to materials we didn't previously. This lead to an update of the orbiter mesh.

 

[Urwumpe]

This is what is happening now. We have gotten access to materials we didn't previously. This lead to an update of the orbiter mesh.

Still I would recommend keeping the current mesh as reference and develop a new one as branch. Even if it is annoying.



I know it would be all easier, if we could separate visual representation and simulation model and develop them independently.

 

[Donamy]

I think a standard scenario to view the mesh in Orbiter 2016, would be useful to show changes or problems. That can be easily recreated.

 

[GLS]

I think a standard scenario to view the mesh in Orbiter 2016, would be useful to show changes or problems. That can be easily recreated.

What is a standard scenario? We already have scenarios to ilustrate the different configurations... :shrug:

 

[Donamy]

But not an easy SSU installation.

 

[GLS]

But not an easy SSU installation.

If you can make an easy Space Shuttle, while keeping the detail, and do it with very limited manpower... please go ahead because I want that. :lol:

 

[DaveS]

But not an easy SSU installation.

I have been thinking about that. Could we set up something like thay automated build bot that NASSP uses? That way anyone can grab the latest revision without having to maintain an SVN/VS installation.

 

[Donamy]

If you can make an easy Space Shuttle, while keeping the detail, and do it with very limited manpower... please go ahead because I want that. :lol:

I don't get your meaning. :shrug:

 

[GLS]

I have been thinking about that. Could we set up something like thay automated build bot that NASSP uses? That way anyone can grab the latest revision without having to maintain an SVN/VS installation.

... and the point of that would be? If we haven't released, that's because it isn't finished. :shrug:
When time comes, we do a couple of pre-releases to iron things out and then release.
I don't see the point of using the little resources we have to make it easier for people to use the unfinished product, instead of finishing it. The sources are available already, it's a few (or more) clicks away, no code to write, no 3D models to make...

---------- Post added at 01:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:38 AM ----------

Finished (finally!) the correction to the rudder/speedbrake positions and animations. Now the positions of each are correctly limited when one of the panels hits the stop. A side effect when the rudder is limited is that the aerofoil isn't... but that shouldn't make much difference and is another thing to fix when we do the ASAs and all the aero control stuff.

About the mesh corrections:
> the inside of the outboard RSB panel still have mapping issues (it seems like nothing changed);
> the bottom of the tail, just aft of the drag chute door, has a mapping issue where something other than tiles is showing;
> the original tail has the same mapping issue, plus the sides around the bottom aren't correct;
> the body flap base still doesn't connect well to the aft compartment;
> the front and top of the OMS pods looks uneven (not (just) mapping), and the area in front of the RCS pods has wierd lighting when the Sun is from behind.

What about the hidden faces, can I remove then?

---------- Post added at 01:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:06 AM ----------

I don't get your meaning. :shrug:

I don't think anybody is making things more complex than they are... it's the way it is. It's not only a complex vehicle, but it has many options, which only adds complexity.

 

[Urwumpe]

I have been thinking about that. Could we set up something like thay automated build bot that NASSP uses? That way anyone can grab the latest revision without having to maintain an SVN/VS installation.

Yeah, that would be nice, especially if we could maybe add some scripts to get to a full downloadable ZIP file for a nightly build to download.