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Project Space Shuttle Vessel
- Thread starter GLS
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OK - so I was actually able to perform an OMS 1 burn (imperfectly) -sort of following your instructions and also reading the crew software interface doc that was recommended. Wow - great fun - and closed the umbilical doors, open the star trackers and payload bay doors - all set for orbit! Now to do some more reading and experimenting.
Many thanks.
Many thanks.
PriestLizard
Member
Phenomenal work on this! Wow!
I just started to look into it, barely scratched the surface and I think a lot of things to dig into.
One immediate question I have is what am I doing wrong in terms of VC MFDs?
Most scenarios I start, i.e. all scenarios in "Testing scenarios" folder, most MFDs are deactivated and the resolution seems off.
In other scenarios, e.g. "Launch test" or the historical missions, the MFDs are activated, but the resolution is still off.
How can I fix the resolution?
And is there a way to manually set the correct MFDs? All I can do is turn on the MFD, and it then shows the same MFD as in the top-right of the screenshot above.
Another example from Launch Test:
The MFDs are working correctly when not in VC mode:
Any ideas how to fix this?
I just started to look into it, barely scratched the surface and I think a lot of things to dig into.
One immediate question I have is what am I doing wrong in terms of VC MFDs?
Most scenarios I start, i.e. all scenarios in "Testing scenarios" folder, most MFDs are deactivated and the resolution seems off.
In other scenarios, e.g. "Launch test" or the historical missions, the MFDs are activated, but the resolution is still off.
How can I fix the resolution?
And is there a way to manually set the correct MFDs? All I can do is turn on the MFD, and it then shows the same MFD as in the top-right of the screenshot above.
Another example from Launch Test:
The MFDs are working correctly when not in VC mode:
Any ideas how to fix this?
GLS
Well-known member
Thanks!
Like I mention in the readme file and also in the manual, you need set the MFD resolution to 512x512.
I can also see you didn't install the needed fonts.
GLS
Well-known member
In orbit, they turned off most MDUs to save power.
PriestLizard
Member
Thanks though GLS - all working great.
Urwumpe
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ALso the third IDP is powered down, thus only CRT 1,2 and 4 are available for displaying data - CRT3 should show an error screen, if powered on.
think the outer 2 MDUs of the forward panel are the first to switch off if desired, since they have no secondary IDP to switch to in orbit, should IDP 1 or IDP 2 fail. That leaves on four MDUs in the forward cockpit to really make sense to use.
PriestLizard
Member
Man, SSV is really the Shuttle simulator I always felt needs to exist Again, tremendous work here. I used Shuttle Fleet back in 2009 and it was already quite amazing, but SSV tops everything else out there.
So, now that everything seems to be set up fine etc., I'm working my way through one of the testing scenarios: Rendevouz test scenario.
I'm happy to work my way through the manual, but I might need some pointers in terms of whether or not I'm on the right path.
Basically, I was looking up the STS-116 rendevouz checklist (https://www.nasa.gov/centers/johnson/pdf/163531main_RNDZ_116_F_1.pdf) and I'm trying to identify where am I actually jumping in here.
The scenario file reads "[...] following the NC4 burn", yet I cannot identify the NC4 burn in the checklist of the actual STS-116 flight. The "final NC burn" is mentioned on page 55, so is this where I'm supposed to jump in?
The scenario file also mentions using the ORBIT display via SPEC 34 PRO, which is first mentioned on the same page to the right:
[GNC_34__ORBIT_TGT]
TGT NO - ITEM 1 +1 EXEC
Set BASE TIME to Ti TIG, (Ti Burn Pad, 3-6)
LOAD - ITEM 26 EXEC
I managed to use the UNIV PTG to orientate the shuttle based on LOAD TARGET TRACK (page 57), but I haven't managed yet to actually trigger/execute the ORBIT TGT maneuvers. I think I understand how to set them up, e.g.
TGT NO - ITEM 1 +9 EXEC
√TGT Set data:
T1 TIG = NCC BURN SOLUTION TIG
EL +0
∆T +57.7
∆X -48.6
∆Y +0.0
∆Z +1.2
COMPUTE T1 - ITEM 28 EXEC
But AFAIK the maneuver is meant to be executed once the timer is hit - but I don't seem to be able to actually trigger it. I checked your (GLS) post on the previous page where you provided a checklist for the OMS burn, where a flashing EXEC sign is mentioned - I never got that far. I suppose for that hurdle, I shall study the crew ops manual and the software interface manual a bit more.
Again, tremendous work here. I used Shuttle Fleet back in 2009 and it was already quite amazing, but SSV tops everything else out there. So, now that everything seems to be set up fine etc., I'm working my way through one of the testing scenarios: Rendevouz test scenario.
I'm happy to work my way through the manual, but I might need some pointers in terms of whether or not I'm on the right path.
Basically, I was looking up the STS-116 rendevouz checklist (https://www.nasa.gov/centers/johnson/pdf/163531main_RNDZ_116_F_1.pdf) and I'm trying to identify where am I actually jumping in here.
The scenario file reads "[...] following the NC4 burn", yet I cannot identify the NC4 burn in the checklist of the actual STS-116 flight. The "final NC burn" is mentioned on page 55, so is this where I'm supposed to jump in?
The scenario file also mentions using the ORBIT display via SPEC 34 PRO, which is first mentioned on the same page to the right:
[GNC_34__ORBIT_TGT]
TGT NO - ITEM 1 +1 EXEC
Set BASE TIME to Ti TIG, (Ti Burn Pad, 3-6)
LOAD - ITEM 26 EXEC
I managed to use the UNIV PTG to orientate the shuttle based on LOAD TARGET TRACK (page 57), but I haven't managed yet to actually trigger/execute the ORBIT TGT maneuvers. I think I understand how to set them up, e.g.
TGT NO - ITEM 1 +9 EXEC
√TGT Set data:
T1 TIG = NCC BURN SOLUTION TIG
EL +0
∆T +57.7
∆X -48.6
∆Y +0.0
∆Z +1.2
COMPUTE T1 - ITEM 28 EXEC
But AFAIK the maneuver is meant to be executed once the timer is hit - but I don't seem to be able to actually trigger it. I checked your (GLS) post on the previous page where you provided a checklist for the OMS burn, where a flashing EXEC sign is mentioned - I never got that far. I suppose for that hurdle, I shall study the crew ops manual and the software interface manual a bit more.
So I am back from Australia, my first trip to southern hemisphere to see southern stars... I SAW THEM!!! But even there I followed SSV development.
1) May I suggest to add an option to load sound file during launch (like pointing to "STS-57_launch.wav") to have real TV commentaries for the the first a couple of minutes of flight.
2) I never worked much with ITEM x, MM202, etc... what are keyboard(?) shortcuts to activate them, somehow I could find the info.
1) May I suggest to add an option to load sound file during launch (like pointing to "STS-57_launch.wav") to have real TV commentaries for the the first a couple of minutes of flight.
2) I never worked much with ITEM x, MM202, etc... what are keyboard(?) shortcuts to activate them, somehow I could find the info.
Last edited:
There are no keyboard keybinds to interact with the Shuttle DPS/GPC, we have to click in the cockpit like we would click in a cockpit in a flight simulator.
So for SSV, you have 2 scrachtpachs above the panel C3, you click on these numbers and items to select what you want to write (that will appears in one of the MDU that displays the DPS).
If you're new I can recommend this video by Tim13 that gives a general idea of the Shuttle avionics (it's for SSU but it's still the same with SSV for now)
Thanks, I see now
PriestLizard
Member
Ok, lots of progress here! But still a key problem remaining.
I managed to get the correct maneuver loaded into the ORBIT MNVR EXEC display, used some of the guidelines from the previous page in this thread to get generate a solution (22), set a timer (23), and align the shuttle automatically towards the burn vector (27).
Yet when the countdown runs out - nothing happens. And there is no "Exec" display when the countdown is below 15 seconds either.
Settings on the DAP panel: A/AUTO/PRI
Both OMS Engines are armed.
Anyone know what I am missing?
But still a key problem remaining. I managed to get the correct maneuver loaded into the ORBIT MNVR EXEC display, used some of the guidelines from the previous page in this thread to get generate a solution (22), set a timer (23), and align the shuttle automatically towards the burn vector (27).
Yet when the countdown runs out - nothing happens. And there is no "Exec" display when the countdown is below 15 seconds either.
Settings on the DAP panel: A/AUTO/PRI
Both OMS Engines are armed.
Anyone know what I am missing?
thermocalc
Active member
hi, not sure if i can help you; but i noticed something similar issues in the past while using SSU (which i think should be solved by now).. namely, sometimes you need to cycle between ops 202 to ops 201 to ops 202 again before to make a new burn ... sometime i also noticed that the flushing exec didn't come out at tig -15 sec, but if i was hitting the exec button by myself (despite it was not appearing at -15 sec) the engines do ignited ....i still didn't try the new SSV so i suppose this should not happen .... .but just for trial, did you tried to hit exec nevertheless after tig-15sec when the EXEC should have to appear but it didn't (to see if the engine ignited) or you just didn't nothing, just waiting letting the TIG skip?
another things to check, are the two R and L OMS ENG valve switches on panels O14 and O16 (see photo) ... they should be always on by default, but as they are clickable if you turn them off by mistake the oms will not ignite. Other than check this i would have no others clues....sorry.
another things to check, are the two R and L OMS ENG valve switches on panels O14 and O16 (see photo) ... they should be always on by default, but as they are clickable if you turn them off by mistake the oms will not ignite. Other than check this i would have no others clues....sorry.
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GLS
Well-known member
Had a busy couple of days (barely had time to follow the latest SLS WDR).
The OMS burn display only supports 1 burn (except on one MM, which I think is MM 105), so after a burn in orbit you need to go back to MM 201 and reenter MM 202. The OMS burn flow is a bit messy, so there's probably a check missing that would give "Illegal Entry" when trying to "re-burn".
The O14 and O16 OMS switches also need to be on, in addition to the switches on panel C3.
The OMS burn display only supports 1 burn (except on one MM, which I think is MM 105), so after a burn in orbit you need to go back to MM 201 and reenter MM 202. The OMS burn flow is a bit messy, so there's probably a check missing that would give "Illegal Entry" when trying to "re-burn".
The O14 and O16 OMS switches also need to be on, in addition to the switches on panel C3.
PriestLizard
Member
Thanks for the pointers. I managed to see the Exec label once, but couldn't reproduce a reliable way of making sure it appears. Tried your tip of cycling through the OPS 201/202 screens, but that was unreliable for me.
Yes, I tried pressing the EXEC button anyway in that time window... and I think it still works? Hard to tell. The shuttle does fire some bits but... hard to get any reliable feedback if its actually working. The delta values in the calculated burn solution (top right of OPS 202) certainly don't go down to 0, but not sure if they are supposed to?
And yes, the OMS switches are on, pointing upwards ("ARM"). They can be pressed down while pointing upwards, or just point upwards fully extended. Not sure if that makes a difference?
What I did notice is that the OMS engines actually seem to be out of fuel? See below:
Is that as intended for this scenario? I'm using the "Rendezvous test scenario" in the Testing scenarios folder. I suppose that would explain why the engines are not firing?
I have a few more detailed questions, maybe someone can help me out here:
1. How can I actually switch the target of the SPEC34 calculations? Does this always default to the ISS? What if I have MIR and ISS in orbit and want to choose either of them? I noticed a "TGT ID" in the scenario file which reads TGT_ID = 2 (under the SimpleGPC1 subsystem), but not sure what that is referring to.
2. So in SPEC34, you can specify the burn time (T1), and the time when to arrive at the target (T2), and determine the delta vector from target. That is great - but what about the relative velocity? It's one thing to get close to your rendevouz target - at some point you have to match relative speeds. There seems to be data rows for it in the SPEC34 display, but they don't seem to be doing anything? Is this supposed to be done fully manual at this point?
Thanks in advance and happy flying!
Yes, I tried pressing the EXEC button anyway in that time window... and I think it still works? Hard to tell. The shuttle does fire some bits but... hard to get any reliable feedback if its actually working. The delta values in the calculated burn solution (top right of OPS 202) certainly don't go down to 0, but not sure if they are supposed to?
And yes, the OMS switches are on, pointing upwards ("ARM"). They can be pressed down while pointing upwards, or just point upwards fully extended. Not sure if that makes a difference?
What I did notice is that the OMS engines actually seem to be out of fuel? See below:
Is that as intended for this scenario? I'm using the "Rendezvous test scenario" in the Testing scenarios folder. I suppose that would explain why the engines are not firing?
I have a few more detailed questions, maybe someone can help me out here:
1. How can I actually switch the target of the SPEC34 calculations? Does this always default to the ISS? What if I have MIR and ISS in orbit and want to choose either of them? I noticed a "TGT ID" in the scenario file which reads TGT_ID = 2 (under the SimpleGPC1 subsystem), but not sure what that is referring to.
2. So in SPEC34, you can specify the burn time (T1), and the time when to arrive at the target (T2), and determine the delta vector from target. That is great - but what about the relative velocity? It's one thing to get close to your rendevouz target - at some point you have to match relative speeds. There seems to be data rows for it in the SPEC34 display, but they don't seem to be doing anything? Is this supposed to be done fully manual at this point?
Thanks in advance and happy flying!
thermocalc
Active member
Hi,
If the OMS are firing at the proper TIG time you may know by different ways.
The easiest (check in external view if they are light on);
More realistic and more flight simulator oriented, look at the Pc% gauges for L and R OMS engines in the OMS/MPS display: if they go up to 100% with a white tape bar they ignited, conversely at cut off they should go back to 0% again.
Alternatively, you can observe the data field in the top-right corner of the OMS xxx MNVR EXEC display (where you get the orbital information) and see if the TGO decreases (time to go, time to cut off) as well as if all DVx,y,z values decreases (if you want to change only DVx than only the DVx field will be not zero and it will start decreasing as the burn progresses, if you wanted to change also other velocity components DVy, DVz, they will be also be not zero at start of burn and showing decreasing values during the burn); as all DV’s displayed are supposed to be interpreted as “velocity to be gained by the burn”) while at cut-off all numerical values will stop changing, they might not be really stop all three at 0.0 … some small RESIDUALS might still be there (something like, +/- 0.x or as high as +/- x.x), in this case sometimes they need to be NULLED (brought to exactly 0.0 nearby, maybe to +/- 0.1 fps) or not, depending on situation and flight plan, in case you need to fire manually the RCS in translational mode to trim the residual speeds, for this you must make sure you get the flight controller switch to ON to can command the RCS jets as required. Lastly, you may also get a clue that the OMS are burning looking at the values of the CUR HA and HP in the same display which should tends towards the target values.
About the OMS ARM, ARM/PRESS, OFF switches on central panel C3: to can ignite the engines they must be on ARM/PRESS (better) or ARM, the difference is that in ARM/PRESS at cut off the system will command an automatic purge of residuals propellants in the fuel lines, in ARM this automatic purge doesn't happen, in OFF the engine cannot be fired or once fired automatically they can be switched off manually at any time you need by bringing these switches to the OFF position from ARM or ARM/PRESS once they were automatically ignited.
About the OMS fuel, the propellant status can be seen on panel O3 above the pilot station putting the knob selector to OMS FUEL or OXID and read out the numbers in the red digital readout (see photo).
At the moment in the OMS/MPS page you mentioned, only the Pc% tape is driven (combustion chamber pressure for left (L) and right (R) OMS engine), the other two tapes: He TK P and N2 TK P have to do with pressurization circuits, not implemented so far, so they are not functional and have no effect on OMS.
About the SPEC 34 display…some nice information can be found in the RENDPROX doc, but how to use it to actually perform a rendezvous in SSV I can’t tell, as I still didn’t figure out by myself (so it would be very instructive to see others help you out with this, and if eventually you manage to do it you will tell / teach me how to do later on
).
Cheers.
If the OMS are firing at the proper TIG time you may know by different ways.
The easiest (check in external view if they are light on
);More realistic and more flight simulator oriented, look at the Pc% gauges for L and R OMS engines in the OMS/MPS display: if they go up to 100% with a white tape bar they ignited, conversely at cut off they should go back to 0% again.
Alternatively, you can observe the data field in the top-right corner of the OMS xxx MNVR EXEC display (where you get the orbital information) and see if the TGO decreases (time to go, time to cut off) as well as if all DVx,y,z values decreases (if you want to change only DVx than only the DVx field will be not zero and it will start decreasing as the burn progresses, if you wanted to change also other velocity components DVy, DVz, they will be also be not zero at start of burn and showing decreasing values during the burn); as all DV’s displayed are supposed to be interpreted as “velocity to be gained by the burn”) while at cut-off all numerical values will stop changing, they might not be really stop all three at 0.0 … some small RESIDUALS might still be there (something like, +/- 0.x or as high as +/- x.x), in this case sometimes they need to be NULLED (brought to exactly 0.0 nearby, maybe to +/- 0.1 fps) or not, depending on situation and flight plan, in case you need to fire manually the RCS in translational mode to trim the residual speeds, for this you must make sure you get the flight controller switch to ON to can command the RCS jets as required. Lastly, you may also get a clue that the OMS are burning looking at the values of the CUR HA and HP in the same display which should tends towards the target values.
About the OMS ARM, ARM/PRESS, OFF switches on central panel C3: to can ignite the engines they must be on ARM/PRESS (better) or ARM, the difference is that in ARM/PRESS at cut off the system will command an automatic purge of residuals propellants in the fuel lines, in ARM this automatic purge doesn't happen, in OFF the engine cannot be fired or once fired automatically they can be switched off manually at any time you need by bringing these switches to the OFF position from ARM or ARM/PRESS once they were automatically ignited.
About the OMS fuel, the propellant status can be seen on panel O3 above the pilot station putting the knob selector to OMS FUEL or OXID and read out the numbers in the red digital readout (see photo).
At the moment in the OMS/MPS page you mentioned, only the Pc% tape is driven (combustion chamber pressure for left (L) and right (R) OMS engine), the other two tapes: He TK P and N2 TK P have to do with pressurization circuits, not implemented so far, so they are not functional and have no effect on OMS.
About the SPEC 34 display…some nice information can be found in the RENDPROX doc, but how to use it to actually perform a rendezvous in SSV I can’t tell, as I still didn’t figure out by myself (so it would be very instructive to see others help you out with this, and if eventually you manage to do it you will tell / teach me how to do later on
).Cheers.
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GLS
Well-known member
With a short burn, like the one in the MNVR display above, the OMS engines will just "blink". There are probably some dV thresholds to decide what burns use both engines, just one or instead use the RCS... I don't know what they are, but I'd put those 5.27 fps in the RCS category, or 1 OMS engine at best.
I'm not sure if the RCS option (ITEM 4) works, but for a RCS burn just select any number of OMS engines, setup everything as usual but keep the OMS engines disabled with the C3 switches, and instead use the THC to null the dV (the RCS burns are always manual). Just remember that (aft) RCS is limited and you need some for reentry.
On the OMS ENG switches on panel C3, ARM and ARM/PRESS are currently the same, and both will enable the engines.
On the OMS parameters in the OMS/MPS display, only Pc is working as the N2 and He tanks aren't implemented (yet).
As for SPEC 34, I can tell you that is currently getting a massive improvement. Please have some patience and you shall be rewarded.
I'm not sure if the RCS option (ITEM 4) works, but for a RCS burn just select any number of OMS engines, setup everything as usual but keep the OMS engines disabled with the C3 switches, and instead use the THC to null the dV (the RCS burns are always manual). Just remember that (aft) RCS is limited and you need some for reentry.
On the OMS ENG switches on panel C3, ARM and ARM/PRESS are currently the same, and both will enable the engines.
On the OMS parameters in the OMS/MPS display, only Pc is working as the N2 and He tanks aren't implemented (yet).
As for SPEC 34, I can tell you that is currently getting a massive improvement. Please have some patience and you shall be rewarded.
PriestLizard
Member
OK thanks for all the info! Also looking forward to the changes you were hinting at @GLS, certainly staying tuned for those
So by the sounds of it, the two questions from my side above (assigning a custom target for SPEC34 operations, and determining a target relative velocity vector at T2) are both a "no, not possible at this point"?
Sounds like I will focus on some of the other operations of the shuttle in the meantime! Thanks again for the hard work @GLS. I can imagine it can be tricky to do this in your free time, but rest assured myself and I bet a lot of others appreciate the tremendous effort on this!
So by the sounds of it, the two questions from my side above (assigning a custom target for SPEC34 operations, and determining a target relative velocity vector at T2) are both a "no, not possible at this point"?
Sounds like I will focus on some of the other operations of the shuttle in the meantime! Thanks again for the hard work @GLS. I can imagine it can be tricky to do this in your free time, but rest assured myself and I bet a lot of others appreciate the tremendous effort on this!
amalahama
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Hi,
When the time to update the cockpit arrives, I would recommend to contact Christ Kuhn . He modeled a fantastic 3D model of the Space Shuttle flight deck and allowed Flightgear guys to use his model under GPL, although without textures. Lot of work to clean and adapt to Orbiter will still remain, but at least it's not starting from scratch.
Best regards
When the time to update the cockpit arrives, I would recommend to contact Christ Kuhn . He modeled a fantastic 3D model of the Space Shuttle flight deck and allowed Flightgear guys to use his model under GPL, although without textures. Lot of work to clean and adapt to Orbiter will still remain, but at least it's not starting from scratch.
Best regards
GLS
Well-known member
The 3D model isn't what scares me (yes, it's not easy), I'm more concerned about GPCs, IDPs, ADCs, MDUs, DEUs, DDUs, DUs, basically all the unseen parts that drive the displays, lights, talkbacks, etc.
On the graphics side, the only "concerns" are interior and panel/switch lighting (which is sort of out of my hands as it depend a lot on the graphics engines), the mechanical tapes (for altitude, velocity, etc) in the MCDS version, and ejection seats. All of these are +/- far in the future, so I'm currently loosing sleep with other things. Meanwhile there will be the occasional "incremental update" to improve what exists, but after 2+ years of graphics work, the 3 main focus areas are 1) code, 2) code, and 3) code.
