Notebook
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RN gets new toy
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SiberianTiger
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Can she be considered a tall ship?..
Notebook
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Yes, it does look top heavy in that picture. As long as they don't turn too fast, they'll be all right. Don't want it doing a Mary Rose
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Rose
N.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Rose
N.
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Probably not! But I bet it has a lot of 4-letter acronyms.
It's been in the national news here as its the first of six of its type. Lots of debate as to wether the RN should be getting these considering what the current international situation is.
N.
It's been in the national news here as its the first of six of its type. Lots of debate as to wether the RN should be getting these considering what the current international situation is.
N.
tblaxland
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Yes, I did have a chuckle at that. Thats nearly the completet set of BBC collective nouns. They never got over decimilsation, poor things.
tblaxland
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I assume he is just talking about the Royal Navy? The Ilmarinen is the earliest I know of (1934).
EDIT: Come to think of it, in the Royal Navy, what about the Porpoise class (1956)? Or don't subs count as front-line warships? Some Navy guys I've spoken to say subs are boats anyway, not ships :lol:
EDIT2: N, you posted while I was editing...
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Yes, he was meaning RN ships. The US Navy has had electrically powered (via gas turbine fuelled by nuclear power) ships for a while.
To the Navy, all surface vessels are ships. All sub-surface vessels are boats. They are very particular about that! So if you take the inferrals, he's correct:
It's the first time that a [RN] front-line [surface-]warship is propelled by electricity.
tblaxland
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Electrically powered, yes, but not nuclear. Zumwalt class will be the first US nuclear turbo-electric powered ship. They even reverted back to nuclear-turbine power for the LA class subs after failed experiments with earlier nuclear turbo-electric subs (USS Tullibee and USS Glenard P. Lipscomb)
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I assumed that some of their cruisers were nuclear powered. I know that the aircraft carriers are, but they're not front-line. You learn something new every day!
Dickie
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There isn't any debate amongst people in the know as to the fact that we do need the Type 45s and the capability they bring. The Type 42s which they replace (unfortunately not hull-for-hull, but that's another story) are outdated, unreliable and have been in need of replacement for a long time now.
As for the electric propulsion, the difference is that these are the first RN ships to be completely electrically powered (i.e your turbine or diesel engine produces electricity which powers an electric motor to turn the shafts) as opposed to CODLAG or COGAG (where your turbine or diesel engine powers the shafts directly).
Submarines are definitely 'boats' as opposed to 'ships', never really heard a definitive reason why though - so far the best reason I've heard is that originally admirals considered submarines to be an unsporting and ungentlemanly way to go to war! Anyone else got any other ideas where this comes from?
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I've not heard a definitive reason why, but (as with a lot of British things) it's because of tradition. We've called them that way for age so we'll chuffing-well carry on doing so! I work with the Navy and most people I've asked have said they don't honestly know *why* there is that distinction, but that's what it is so they call it thus. The ones that have provided an answer have assumed it is because of the reason above.
Well by that definition, a submarine is definitely a ship. A kayak is at least a boat (though I'll get to that later), and a submarine can definitely carry a kayak, so a submarine is a ship. However, a largish kayak might even be considered a ship, since I'll bet that a strong occupant could lift a smallish kayak above his head while sitting in the largish one without sinking it.
I think that definition needs to be more specific.
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Well by that definition, a submarine is definitely a ship. A kayak is at least a boat (though I'll get to that later), and a submarine can definitely carry a kayak, so a submarine is a ship. However, a largish kayak might even be considered a ship, since I'll bet that a strong occupant could lift a smallish kayak above his head while sitting in the largish one without sinking it.
I think that definition needs to be more specific.
A Kayak is no boat - It has to be of "modest size".
Also, a submarine does usually not carry a Kayak. The US Los Angeles clas submarines could could as ships, as they carried the DSRV.
Dickie
Wannabe Rocket Scientist
It also makes you wonder what the 'S' in say, HMS Vengeance stands for - or is it Her Majesties Submarine?
I've also heard the definition of ship vs boat depends on if the vessel in question can be carried on another vessel, i.e you can carry a RIB on another boat/ship so it is a boat, whereas a supertanker can't be carried by another ship so it is a ship. With submarines I suspect most of it is to do with submariners wanting to maintain themselves apart from their surface fleet counterparts rather than actual definitions.
I've also heard the definition of ship vs boat depends on if the vessel in question can be carried on another vessel, i.e you can carry a RIB on another boat/ship so it is a boat, whereas a supertanker can't be carried by another ship so it is a ship. With submarines I suspect most of it is to do with submariners wanting to maintain themselves apart from their surface fleet counterparts rather than actual definitions.
Usquanigo
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That, plus a submarines overall shape (sans conning tower) just calls up all the wrong imagery.
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