Programming AI with binary, it can't be done, here's why.

Programming artificial intelligence can't be done in binary?

Isn't the whole definition of artificial intelligence that it gives the appearance of "true" intelligence, when really it's just an automated process? Surely under that definition, AI can be done under any kind of system as long it gives the illusion of intelligence?

What is intelligence? How would you define the divide between artificial intelligence and "real" intelligence? What prevents us from building a "real" intelligence on, say, a mechanical computer?

Can you prove there's anything more to human intelligence than an "automated process"?

People assume far too much about our intelligence. On average, we're grossly overestimating ourselves. The centuries of humanism, while progressing humanity as a whole, have led us to view ourselves and our minds in particular as something vastly superior to the non-thinking universe. This is simply not so. There's nothing special happening in our heads that can't be replicated as a general algorithm that runs on any computing substrate.
 
I would like to be many things, and I would like to not be many other things, but out of everything, one thing I certainly would not like to be, is an entity that exists solely for scientific novelty.
Unless you modify it's 'mind' to make it subservient and happy to be.
But then you still have confusing ethics, and it's a bit like the Ood in Doctor Who
 
Wrong. Our brains are structures that are not seen elsewhere in the known universe, other intelligent organisms aside. The same types of matter, yes, but it's rather silly to compare a carbonaceous chondrite to a brain.

My computer has a computing substrate. I strongly doubt you could recreate a human mind on it. And even if you create a simulation of a brain, it is not a brain- only a simulation of one, similar to how an extensively intricate simulation of a glass of water is distinct from a real glass of water.

Unless you modify it's 'mind' to make it subservient and happy to be.
But then you still have confusing ethics, and it's a bit like the Ood in Doctor Who

What if I modify your mind to make you subservient and happy to do unquestioningly do my bidding? How would you feel about that?

The simple answer, is that you do not need, nor do you want, a sentient intelligence. A powerful generalist AI program would be extensively useful, but it does not have to be sentient. Sentience only wastes computing resources and creates ethics problems.
 
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Wrong. Our brains are structures that are not seen elsewhere in the known universe, other intelligent organisms aside. The same types of matter, yes, but it's rather silly to compare a carbonaceous chondrite to a brain.

Not too special. You might be surprised how often natural phenomena produce similar structures.
 
Not too special. You might be surprised how often natural phenomena produce similar structures.

Well... the basic structure of the brain is roughly the same in most amniotes, but this is because we share a common ancestor...

I'm yet to see a nerve cell spontaneously form out of a nebula. :P
 
I'm yet to see a nerve cell spontaneously form out of a nebula. :P

Just give the nebula enough time... :lol:

Or do you want to blame Henry Ford that you had not been able to buy a Lamborghini Gallardo in 1920?
 
I'm yet to see a nerve cell spontaneously form out of a nebula. :P
But it did, didn't it? It took a few billion years and a lot of garbage - planets, asteroids and a star was left over, but the nebula did turn into a bunch of neurons in the end.
 
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Well, first of all: Why not? It is science.
Because if its a why not question, its not science. If it doesn't fit the scientific method, its not science. It is, however, experimentation, which doesn't need a hypothesis.

Next...it is fun. I remember having used a bot in an IRC channel for a while to replace me, with only very few people noticing that this wasn't me.
But it was not real intelligence... Anyways, SWEET!

also, I would really like to have some AI crew members in Orbiter, that assist the player or just make the spacecraft feel less sterile. There is no difference between artificial intelligence and real stupidity.
You're right, there is no difference. Both are man-made :P
 
Because if its a why not question, its not science. If it doesn't fit the scientific method, its not science. It is, however, experimentation, which doesn't need a hypothesis.

Why not is not the question for science. The abstract science question in that case would be "How far can we go? With what can we get through? How would a Turing test go with this one?"

But it was not real intelligence... Anyways, SWEET!

It could successfully replace many other people who think that they are intelligent. So at least it is a worthy artificial self-deception.

The true mastery of AI would still be having a computer that is able to lie in a controlled way, as you need for proper strategy. I have yet never seen any AI that is capable of deceiving a human player, without having a human teaching it deception patterns in advance.

You're right, there is no difference. Both are man-made :P

Not really that... but rather that what we call intelligent, can be with different measures be simply stupid. And people we quickly mark as stupid, can often be actually very intelligent, but just not fitting into the scheme of intelligent people, as such people see themselves. It is very easy to make stupid errors, if you are too much used to defend stupidity as ingenuity.

As if you make your kid more intelligent if you only permit violin or piano as instruments, despite electric guitar or drums actually requiring a lot more mastery if you want to play in one league with the best. Classic music is actually one of the most uninspired fields of music, that only enforce stupid learning of standard patterns. Just like Jazz, but good Jazz at least tries to escape its curse. And if you would have the nerves to let your kid learn playing bag pipes, you would at least force it to learn something that requires a few months of training before you can actually try playing the first tunes on a real bag pipe.

Maybe that is another good way to define intelligence: Being able to think out of the box. A poor AI can maybe learn, but not learn to go beyond what its programmer taught it in advance. A good AI would not limit itself to its program, but rather "invent" new rules for it, reorganize itself and adapt to become better, and also learn to try something that is not directly leading to the result for the sake of having more options.

But this would also mean that we would have to accept failed AIs, which drew the wrong conclusions and optimized themselves to the wrong world... despite having worked properly for decades.
 
Dangit, just figured out it my quotes were from last page xD
Anyways, binary is capable of creating a "living" intelligence, living not meaning biological, but growing, and capable of extreme abstract thoughts. Its all just a big "If x, do y, if a, do b." Just like the human brain.
 
If you just chain enough "yes / no" questions together, you can describe anything. :lol:
 
Just figured out we are arguing for the wrong thing XD
The original argument is that 1s and 0s can't make intelligence, but they can. Its just how a computer codes things XD
 
But it did, didn't it? It took a few billion years and a lot of garbage - planets, asteroids and a star was left over, but the nebula did turn into a bunch of neurons in the end.

Yes, but the nebula did not nearly do it directly... life was around long before anything like a nerve cell, let alone a brain, appeared. ;)

Why not is not the question for science. The abstract science question in that case would be "How far can we go? With what can we get through? How would a Turing test go with this one?"

Yes... but if science does not think about "How far can we go" without thinking about the potential consequences, it almost fits the description of pure evil...
 
Yes, but the nebula did not nearly do it directly... life was around long before anything like a nerve cell, let alone a brain, appeared. ;)

And? It is not like a life-form only of nerve cells could survive at all, so of course other things have to exist first, before you can think about extra capabilities.

Yes... but if science does not think about "How far can we go" without thinking about the potential consequences, it almost fits the description of pure evil...

Evil and good are beyond the realms of natural science. That is master philosophy.
 
And? It is not like a life-form only of nerve cells could survive at all, so of course other things have to exist first, before you can think about extra capabilities.

Exactly.

Evil and good are beyond the realms of natural science. That is master philosophy.

Yet philosophy must preside over the consequences of science as science may preside over the consequences of philosophy. ;)
 
Folks, aren't you both by any chance cosmologists?
 
I am not a cosmologist. I am nothing- just an internet know-it-all. ;)

I don't know if Urwumpe is a cosmologist, but he is obviously better qualified than I am. :lol:
 
whoa dudes.... 3 pages... so fast...


well it's past six and i'm about to head out back home in a bit... so instead of reading the other 2 pages i'll just throw in the inevtable xkcd reference that immediately came to mind when the word "soul" first appeared:

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/new_pet.png

i'll throw in my clever/stupid remarks later :thumbup:
 
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