OS WARS MEGA THREAD (Now debating proprietary vs. open-source!)

TSPenguin

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Argueing against a preinstalled browser is like argueing against ftp.exe.
Having a way to parse the most common format information comes in today is very important for every OS, why not let the user do that with a usable program?
Granted, I only use IE once on every install (to visit opera.com) and I hate it as a browser. Let IE users be IE users. Everyone who uses it only because it was there and calls it "Internet", well...
 

Moonwalker

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Let IE users be IE users. Everyone who uses it only because it was there and calls it "Internet", well...
Well, I use IE not because it was there but because it is neat and fast. Yes it is. And it is also as safe as FireFox. Anything else is untenable rumors. I use both, IE and FF with pleasure and different purposes, especially FireFox because of the Download Helper.
 

Hielor

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Well, I use IE not because it was there but because it is neat and fast. Yes it is. And it is also as safe as FireFox. Anything else is untenable rumors. I use both, IE and FF with pleasure and different purposes, especially FireFox because of the Download Helper.
Don't forget InPrivate Browsing in IE8! (@4:15 here:
)
 

doggie015

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A new take on the Mac V.s. PC war

Trailer here. (Yes, it is the second! See the parent domain for the original if you wish). I don't want to start a flame war about the Mac V.s. PC debate here (Mods, feel free to lock this topic if it happens), Just present an alternate take on the whole battle
 

simonpro

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(apologies if this has been mentioned, I've only read 2 posts before I got bored)

Christ, anyone who thinks that linux is suitable for distribution to the general public on purchased PCs is deluded. Linux is a superb pain in the ass, whereas windows seems to work much more calmly. I have windows and linux desktops at work and the windows one is much more stable (although slower).
The linux one (currently SuSE, but it was Ubuntu before) crashes frequently, usually won't update itself, won't let me remote desktop, doesn't let me listen to my favourite online radio station, managed to wipe all the music from my iPod, and more-often-than-not won't display the desktop on startup.

I'm a fairly competant computer user (and am supported up by a fantastic IT department) so I can only imagine what chaos would ensue if a computer novice was let loose on it.
That's precisely the reason that we don't let the 1st year undergrads near it ;)
 

Urwumpe

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I think the biggest problem is the idea that any idiot should be permitted operating a computer. Nobody would call for allowing anybody, from any age on, to drive a car. But for computers it must be different...
 

Cerebus

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That may be due to the fact that Computers, even when used by 'idiots' are pretty much incapable of killing people, used wrongly, the worst that tends to happen, is that the 'idiot' breaks the computer.

In the case of the car however, used wrongly, people can be killed and maimed, so yes, for computers, it must be different.
 

Urwumpe

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That may be due to the fact that Computers, even when used by 'idiots' are pretty much incapable of killing people, used wrongly, the worst that tends to happen, is that the 'idiot' breaks the computer.
How long do you think, it will take until that happens? ;) Also, it might not be directly deadly, but think about the economic damage of a zombie PC. It was just lately published as result of a study: A typical zombie PC sends only 2 Spam emails per second. A network with 150,000 PCs, that sends 2 emails per second per PC during a whole day, creates 25 billion Spam emails per day. It is not the fact that idiots exist, but HOW many you have worldwide, that creates problems.

In the case of the car however, used wrongly, people can be killed and maimed, so yes, for computers, it must be different.
Damage is still caused by incompetence that could be limited to requiring proper training and licenses.
 

Cerebus

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So what you propose is that everyone who now uses, or will in future use, a computer, needs to be tested and licensed, in order to use one?

And what criteria would be applied to this licensing system? Since the present Vehicle licensing systems use different categories of drivers, would we then have different categories of computer users?

And how to administer such a system, since these days almost anything with a CPU can connect to the internet, the complexity of such a system boggles the mind, and the economic implications would be staggering, not to mention the political repercussions of applying it worldwide.

Interesting though it is, I feel this is unworkable, perhaps twenty years ago this might have worked, but now? I'm afraid the genie is not only out of the bottle, but off partying with other genies on an alternate plane of existence :)
 

Jarvitä

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Christ, anyone who thinks that linux is suitable for distribution to the general public on purchased PCs is deluded. Linux is a superb pain in the ass, whereas windows seems to work much more calmly.
Computers that come with windows OEM installed tend to have tons of crapware on it, but they're set up by the retailers to "just work" so the user doesn't have to hunt down hardware drivers. I don't see why preinstalled linux PCs couldn't be properly set-up to "just work" in a similar manner for people who don't want to bother with that.
 

Ghostrider

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Interesting though it is, I feel this is unworkable, perhaps twenty years ago this might have worked, but now? I'm afraid the genie is not only out of the bottle, but off partying with other genies on an alternate plane of existence :)
Don't be so sure. If someone higher up decides to put the genie back in the bottle, they'll find a way. Even as we discuss here there are forces in motion that would love to enforce harsh and restrictive laws on what we can or cannot say on teh interweb. If they can force their will upon the ISPs, the next step will be a "Safe Chip" mandatory on all computer, which will dicate what you can or cannot do with your stuff. Don't think it cannot happen.
 

Urwumpe

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Exactly... there is no natural law saying, that you must have the freedom to operate a computer without license. If you want to have that freedom, you have to act self-responsible and make sure that such a licensing is really absurd.

If all people would drive properly, follow the speed limits and don't drive intoxicated, we wouldn't need special police units monitoring the traffic. It would be absurd to pay money for something that isn't needed.

That is why I am so quick with saying idiots. They are idiots. Not because they are not intelligent, but because their lack of self-control damages the freedom of all people.
 

Andy44

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Actually, the road is full of idiots driving cars despite a long-established licensing system, so try again.

The internet is the closest thing to raw freedom we will likely see in our lifetime on an ever-shrinking globe. We should be protecting that freedom as long as we can, not calling for its abolishment.
 

Hielor

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Computers that come with windows OEM installed tend to have tons of crapware on it, but they're set up by the retailers to "just work" so the user doesn't have to hunt down hardware drivers. I don't see why preinstalled linux PCs couldn't be properly set-up to "just work" in a similar manner for people who don't want to bother with that.
What makes you think that the OEM hardware vendors won't install crapware on the linux machines too?
 

doggie015

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What makes you think that the OEM hardware vendors won't install crapware on the linux machines too?
have you seen ANY crapware available on linux? Any decent stuff too?

---------- Post added at 07:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:22 AM ----------

I sure hope not. That's not only an oxymoron, but the last thing in the world I want to see is for Windows to become as pretentious, insulting, stubborn and limiting as Mac OS.
Mac OS is hardly insulting. I have used windows AND mac macheines and personally they all have pro's and con's. The largest windows complaint for me is the fact that if it goes pear-shaped you need to be as much of a nerd as a linux user to fix it, for mac it is not so. My biggest complaint about the mac is that no-body makes any decent games for it (Including Orbiter!) and the price! that is my $0.02
 

movieman

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Christ, anyone who thinks that linux is suitable for distribution to the general public on purchased PCs is deluded. Linux is a superb pain in the ass, whereas windows seems to work much more calmly.
Very odd: I find Windows a colossal pain in the ass, whereas our Linux machines just work... and keep on working. If there weren't two Windows programs I have to run on this Laptop I'd have switched it to Linux long ago (one of them has 'copy protection' which prevents it from running in Wine).

The linux one (currently SuSE, but it was Ubuntu before) crashes frequently, usually won't update itself, won't let me remote desktop, doesn't let me listen to my favourite online radio station, managed to wipe all the music from my iPod, and more-often-than-not won't display the desktop on startup.
Then there's something seriously wrong with your installation. We have numerous Linux machines at work and they crash far less than Windows; we've only had one kernel panic across more than thirty machines in the last year, and that's a third-party server running a different version of the OS to the one we normally install.

Currently one of my Windows PCs refuses to do 'windows update' because 'mscvpr80.dll is protected by Windows' (or some message close to that). You think that Joe Sixpack can figure out how to fix that when even I can't? Oh, I forgot, 'reinstall the operating system'... the solution to every Windows screwup that's far too compex for anyone to fix.

Windows is a half-decent kernel with bodge after bodge after kludge after bodge built on top of it. It's rapidly approaching the point where the house of kludges will be unable to support itself (e.g. the 'windows file protection' kludge which was supposed to fix 'DLL hell' is now creating its own version of 'DLL hell' by refusing to let even _Microsoft_ patches replace DLLs).
 

Hielor

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have you seen ANY crapware available on linux? Any decent stuff too?
OEMs want the crapware on the machines for advertising reasons or w/e. If they started selling a lot of Linux machines, they'd start putting crapware on those too.
 

doggie015

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Looks like you have 2 options: Start from scratch or get a mac. Whichever is easier
 

Hielor

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Looks like you have 2 options: Start from scratch or get a mac. Whichever is easier
I think you were trying to make the point that getting a mac would be easier, except, ironically, "starting from scratch" would be much easier in this case (not to mention less expensive). Backing up important data and starting from a clean install of Windows is a good idea once a year or so anyway, as computers tend to collect a lot of "dust."

Moreover, since Macs can't use Orbiter anyway, it kind of defeats the purpose.
 
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