OFMM Development: Launch Vehicles

[kwan3217]

I volunteered to do DLL-based vessels, and the first request was for a Shuttle-Derived Heavy Lift Vehicle. This is on OrbitHangar now at [ame="http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=4681"]SideMountHLV[/ame] .

It's still pretty basic, but it looks and flies about like it will. Do try it out.

I was thinking that maybe we would want to do some updates to it, like have liquid flyback boosters or such. Donamy implied that there was to be a manned version of this, but I am thinking use this for pure cargo, and launch people into Earth orbit on a Falcon9/Dragon or somesuch.

 

[Bj]

Excellent job


Last I knew we where rooting for the Ares V launcher, but I was still trying to figure out a way to easily change cargo with the way it is designed. This might be a very nice alternative

The only question I have is if it is able to have the universal cargo deck attach parts to the cargo bay area. (unable to test it myself right now)

 

[Urwumpe]

I would say an attachment for cargoes is just enough. But I like the concept and having a standard launcher makes it easier to design the payloads.

Where can I find a scaled drawing of the dynamic payload envelope?

 

[Bj]

I would say an attachment for cargoes is just enough. But I like the concept and having a standard launcher makes it easier to design the payloads.

Where can I find a scaled drawing of the dynamic payload envelope?

I found a reference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuttle-Derived_Heavy_Lift_Launch_Vehicle#HLV_specifications

The HLV will constrain any Mars architecture design due to having less payload capability than Ares V and is limited to only a 7.5 meter diameter payload fairing instead of the 10 meter or larger payload fairing which is possible with the Ares V or the Jupiter.

 

[Urwumpe]

well, for the Jupiter we also have add-ons for Orbiter, about the Ares V I am not so sure, but the huge payload capability of this one also came for the price of being almost a Nova Class launcher.

I think the SDHLV is closer to reality, the Jupiter would be a good alternative, but we shouldn't have more than one HLV.

 

[Columbia42]

I'm currently working on making my Ares V completely Orbiter 2010-compatible just in case we decide we want to use it for some stuff however I think the SD HLV is much closer to reality and I vote that we use it instead.

---------- Post added at 07:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:00 PM ----------

Wait a second, can the SD HLV fit the NERVA 2 in its payload bay?

 

[Urwumpe]

Wait a second, can the SD HLV fit the NERVA 2 in its payload bay?

if not the NERVA 2 as in the Orbiter add-on, sure another stage that uses that rocket engine. The Stage has 10m diameter, that is beyond the 7.5m but now, that is not cast in stone. That stage didn't really exist.

---------- Post added at 09:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:12 PM ----------

BTW, does the DLL for the Nerva simulate the cool-down?

http://www.astronautix.com/engines/nerva.htm#Nerva NTR

 

[River Crab]

I just found a really old booklet of SICSA's concepts/plans for a private enterprise Mars Ares mission, it was just ridiculous what they were thinking back then.
Quoting directly from the booklet,

The SICSA team has concluded that any economically feasible human Mars program will require the availability of a heavy-lift launch vehicle capable of delivering at least 200 metric ton payloads from Earth to LEO.

:rofl:AT LEAST 200t?!
Below it is a picture of a monstrous rocket with a huge bulbous "50 ft. diameter" fairing and what appears to be four blue/white 5-segment Shuttle SRBs. On the fairing it says "ARES"!:lol:

 

[kwan3217]

I found a reference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuttle-Derived_Heavy_Lift_Launch_Vehicle#HLV_specifications

The HLV will constrain any Mars architecture design due to having less payload capability than Ares V and is limited to only a 7.5 meter diameter payload fairing instead of the 10 meter or larger payload fairing which is possible with the Ares V or the Jupiter.

On that page there is a pdf http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/361842main_15 - Augustine Sidemount Final.pdf
with a nice drawing of the dynamic envelopes.

I still don't like crew and cargo in the same ship (That's what a space shuttle is for) but I can implement all of these pretty easily. The hardest part is controlling the launch vehicle from inside the Orion, but if the vessels cooperate, it can be done. One of the concepts is for using an Orion to tow a bunch of cargo to the ISS (page 14). The rack there looks like a perfect fit for UCGO.

 

[Columbia42]

Since the NERVA 2 can't fit inside the SD HLV's payload bay, I vote we use the Ares V to launch it and use SD HLV to launch everything else. The crew can be launched on one of three launch vehicles (this is just my opinion about which vehicles would be best)
1) Soyuz
2) Orion CEV/Ares I
3) Space Shuttle

 

[Urwumpe]

I am against using a special launcher for a single element. Either Ares V or SDHLV.

It is bad enough that we need a special launcher for the crew.

 

[Bloodworth]

I am against using a special launcher for a single element. Either Ares V or SDHLV.

It is bad enough that we need a special launcher for the crew.

While I can see where you are coming from Urwumpe, and can agree for the most part: I'd say that we need to see what all we need to loft into orbit. Have we even found anything yet that can drop kick that monstrous nerva around the world?

But then, the more we need, the more we need to model. It depends on how much work the dev's want to do.

 

[kwan3217]

Does Nerva 2 actually exist? Can it not be redesigned to fit? What happened to Nerva 1?

On another note. I don't know much about UCGO, just used it. It seems like it only features small packages, about 1 m^3 cube. The HLV barge I saw in that one presentation was carrying an MPLM along with space for cubes. Can an entire MPLM be made to be a UCGO unit?

Also: Who wants to make an EDS, Delta IV upper stage, and barge mesh, according to this document?

 

[Izack]

UCGO cargoes are 1.3m^3. You were close.

 

[Columbia42]

I am against using a special launcher for a single element. Either Ares V or SDHLV.

It is bad enough that we need a special launcher for the crew.

I already have a version of the Ares V that can fit the NERVA 2/Droptanks. If you only want to use one launch vehicle, than we need to either use Ares V or modify the NERVA 2 to fit in the SD HLV. Personally, I don't care either way.

While I can see where you are coming from Urwumpe, and can agree for the most part: I'd say that we need to see what all we need to loft into orbit. Have we even found anything yet that can drop kick that monstrous nerva around the world?

But then, the more we need, the more we need to model. It depends on how much work the dev's want to do.

The Ares V can get the NERVA 2 into orbit and then the droptanks can be launched on seperate flights.

Also: Who wants to make an EDS, Delta IV upper stage, and barge mesh, according to this document?

Which document? What kind of EDS? I already have an Ares V style (single J-2X) EDS made however I doubt it could fit in the SD HLV's payload bay.

---------- Post added at 03:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:12 AM ----------

BTW, Kwan3217, I've been tinkering with the source code for your SD HLV trying to fix a few bugs but I can't find the section where the SRB gimballing is defined. Which section of which file is that in?

 

[kwan3217]

1) The PDF I mentioned above has drawings of a Delta IV-style hydrogen upper stage and an EDS-style upper stage, along with the remaining payload volume.

2) Last couple lines of Steer(). I've already fixed it, next version to be published tonight I hope, but here's the code:

  this->SetThrusterDir(th_ssme[0],Fh+(_V(cmd.y,-cmd.x+cmd.z,0))*0.067);
  this->SetThrusterDir(th_ssme[1],Fh+(_V(cmd.y,-cmd.x-cmd.z,0))*0.067);
  this->SetThrusterDir(th_ssme[2],Fh+(_V(cmd.y,-cmd.x      ,0))*0.067);
  
  this->SetThrusterDir(th_srb[0],LSRB_HOME+_V(cmd.y,-cmd.x+cmd.z,0)*0.067);
  this->SetThrusterDir(th_srb[1],RSRB_HOME+_V(cmd.y,-cmd.x-cmd.z,0)*0.067);

This fix depends on a fix in the vessel construction code, so the signs aren't right for version 0.02

---------- Post added at 11:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:17 PM ----------

New version is up, version 0.03. This one actually carries payload, and has a simple "barge" which itself has five attach points. Careful flying or the PEG MFD gets 90 tons into orbit.

 

[Alexw95]

im up for doing meshes if we need some i jsut cant code it

 

[Urwumpe]

Does Nerva 2 actually exist? Can it not be redesigned to fit? What happened to Nerva 1?

Only in a NASA study and there as SRB launched second stage engine actually. It was at the top range of what can be manufactured with ET tooling. Nerva 1 just rested in NASA archives, Nerva 2 is an improved version of it.

On another note. I don't know much about UCGO, just used it. It seems like it only features small packages, about 1 m^3 cube. The HLV barge I saw in that one presentation was carrying an MPLM along with space for cubes. Can an entire MPLM be made to be a UCGO unit?

Yes. Should work.

Also: Who wants to make an EDS, Delta IV upper stage, and barge mesh, according to this document?

Don't look at me, I am bad at making meshes.

 

[garyw]

Also: Who wants to make an EDS, Delta IV upper stage, and barge mesh, according to this document?

Why not use the ones that already exist in other addons?

EDS -> [ame="http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=4387"]CEV Orion and Altair Moon misson[/ame]

Delta IV Upper stages -> [ame="http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=3388"]Velcro Rockets v1.1[/ame]