Project N1 Lunar

[Buck Rogers]

let the LK spacecraft and the Block D go on with their mission

They have to EVA, they probably have to dock anyway to assist the EVA

 

[Urwumpe]

They have to EVA, they probably have to dock anyway to assist the EVA

The docking system is really simple. You can only dock and undock once.

The EVA was really supposed to be like that:

1. The cosmonaut leaves the LOK through the orbital module hatch and climbs the full LOK and Block I backwards towards the LK.
2. He (no gendering necessary) opens the hatch of the fairing
3. He opens the hatch of the LK and enters it.
4. The LK hatch is closed again.
5. The cosmonaut activates the LK and checks out its state.
6. If all is fine, the fairing is separated and the LOK moves away from the LK + Block D stack.
7. If nothing is fine, the cosmonaut leaves the LK and returns to the LOK, which then separates from the rest of the L3 complex and returns home.

 

[Buck Rogers]

OK, that clears things up.

There are also no hatches to be seen in the pic, note it is an early mock-up and not the manned version.

I would prefer an "Apollo style" clean seperation of fairings and SM, but technically a simple hood is easier, just move forward, when the LK is clear, jettison?

 

[Urwumpe]

I would prefer an "Apollo style" clean seperation of fairings and SM, but technically a simple hood is easier, just move forward, when the LK is clear, jettison?

I think Apollo isn't wrong there, because the CSM was also attached to the fairing. Why make it more complex than that?

 

[Buck Rogers]

1. The cosmonaut leaves the LOK through the orbital module hatch and climbs the full LOK and Block I backwards towards the LK.
2. He (no gendering necessary) opens the hatch of the fairing
3. He opens the hatch of the LK and enters it.

This all sounds a little like "lunacy", or at least very KERBAL!

Is there any reference material for this fairing (the last flight was supposed to have a fully functional L3 system)? Or is it total guess work? How large is the removable panel? Big enough to expose half the LK? I've been looking how it would be doable, the LK has a very tiny hatch at an angle, which might just open up inside a fairing*, but in RL that would not be a fun EVA?
Unfortuneately the LK model has a large hatch and other differences, may need to make the lander from scratch as well!

*normally I'd expect the hatch to go inward due to pressure, but it looks to small?

 

[Buck Rogers]

Taking a closer look at the N1 renders the outer main payload fairing may consist of up to 6 different parts?

 

[Urwumpe]

This all sounds a little like "lunacy", or at least very KERBAL!

You don't know much early Soviet Spaceflight Lore, do you? Kerbal is only the safe for children version of it.

Is there any reference material for this fairing (the last flight was supposed to have a fully functional L3 system)? Or is it total guess work? How large is the removable panel? Big enough to expose half the LK? I've been looking how it would be doable, the LK has a very tiny hatch at an angle, which might just open up inside a fairing*, but in RL that would not be a fun EVA?

Sadly not, at least I can't find better things anymore. There used to be some great pencil drawings of the L3 landings, but they are lost in the WWW.

Unfortuneately the LK model has a large hatch and other differences, may need to make the lander from scratch as well!

*normally I'd expect the hatch to go inward due to pressure, but it looks to small?

I am not sure there, in which direction it opens, but the LK used standard atmosphere inside, not pure oxygen at 20% of the sea-level pressure like Apollo. So, the hatch has to withstand a much higher load than the CM hatch of Apollo, despite its smaller size.

 

[Urwumpe]

Taking a closer look at the N1 renders the outer main payload fairing may consist of up to 6 different parts?

Yes, that might be possible, I estimated four parts, to perform a soyuz style launch abort.

It should be much simpler than the modern Soyuz fairing though. No fins, no lots of solid rocket motors all over the fairing.

 

[Buck Rogers]

You don't know much early Soviet Spaceflight Lore, do you? Kerbal is only the safe for children version of it.

Yes but it's worse than I thought!

Sadly not, at least I can't find better things anymore. There used to be some great pencil drawings of the L3 landings, but they are lost in the WWW.

I can use the thermal mock-up as starting point but there's a lot missing hand rails etc.., would you like to give an estimation for hatch size? (I would rip off a huge panel, but they seem to like to do things more difficulty?). Any suggestions welcome.

I am not sure there, in which direction it opens, but the LK used standard atmosphere inside, not pure oxygen at 20% of the sea-level pressure like Apollo. So, the hatch has to withstand a much higher load than the CM hatch of Apollo, despite its smaller size.

Then inside I think, makes the fairing/hatch thing easier.

Yes, that might be possible, I estimated four parts, to perform a soyuz style launch abort.

Judging by the seperation motors on renders it's 6, Test seperation video grab suggests 2 or maybe 4?

 

[Urwumpe]

Korolev engineering is like:

1. Cosmonauts over electronics
2. Simplicity over redundancy
3. Glushko is the satan

 

[N_Molson]

The 'docking' system was basically a harpoon-like docking probe that punched through a (light) metal grid and deployed claws. To 'undock' the harpoon/probe was cut off.

So yeah, the cosmonaut had to EVA to enter the LK, pilot and land the thing on the Moon, perform a short Lunar EVA to plant a Soviet flag, find his way back to orbit, get 'harpooned' by the LOK, then EVA back into the LOK. And of course do all that alone. Quite a busy day!

We (Polar Motion) tried to capture this in BASPM, if you're curious

 

[Buck Rogers]

Korolev engineering is like:

1. Cosmonauts over electronics
2. Simplicity over redundancy
3. Glushko is the satan

Shame they couldn't get along, I guess they were intrinsically too opposed

So I did what I'd said I'd do before asking dumb questions:
I took a closer look at Thorton and Igels VesselM addon which has a fully functional and very detailed coded Block D, fully programmable and with realistic features.
Interestingly it does shed it's fairing, and in 1 piece, it even has coasters to assist (so maybe the other one does too!). One can't really have better. I would suggest using this as a dependency, the gfx is a little dated but very satisfactory, I might be able to give it a tex. update.
Also Igel writes that his code may be used and modified without limitations as long as he's credited.
The addon also has a fully functional LES that could be intergrated. BTW the LES is not connected to the LOK hence the 6 payload fairings.

Looks like the LOK model needs completely redoing too, but VesselM also has a very good TMA, The main difference would be the POA (and inside)?, Maybe some of that, and code could be used? The LK would still need completely redoing.

Also VesselM has the Proton and other things needed for a complete program. What do you think?

 

[Urwumpe]

We should define what is a fairing and what is an interstage....

And there are multiple different versions of a Block D, are you sure that Thortons add-ons didn't use a Block DM?

 

[Buck Rogers]

We should define what is a fairing and what is an interstage....

If that was so easy. It's a fairing/interstage?
It's named as a fairing in all references, but as it is detached before engine ignition I suppose technically it's an interstage?

Block DM

It has that too, I'm refering to the "Block D 1967-1976 original lunar version"
It has a very detailed engine simulation including SOZ detachment.

 

[MaxBuzz]

Hey can you post these in the N1 thread? As long as it's on topic I'd appreciate it (helps finding the resources when I need them)
(also here it's technically a little off-topic)

photo Kosmos 379 lunar landing module LK with thermal insulation (Thermal insulation is darker than that of the Lunokhod, possibly green like that of the Soyuz-7K)

 

[MaxBuzz]

Quite a busy day!

Luna-16 returned to Earth without human participation, in the LK human participation was not necessary either, everything was automatic

 

[Buck Rogers]

Block V

 

[CurlSnout]

I keep coming back to look at these images. This is looking REALLY good. Great detail on the NK-19s. Thanks again for taking this on and please continue to update as you are able.

 

[Buck Rogers]

Block-D



Fairing

Block G. Unsure about the details (very little to go on), The (only) illustration shows a copper (?!) kerosene tank? (on pictures it looks silver). Maybe it should be alluminum?

 

[GLS]

Some new info:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1928443342146171177

And also this, that I knew I'd seen before, but took a while to find: