Project Multistage 2015 Apollo Saturn Launchers for AAPO

[1987VCRProductions]

Yes, from 51C and 33 (and possibly 61N), but it's from the original STS Payloads and works in Orbiter 2010. The other payloads in this add-on could be interesting to launch on a IB (multi-HS-376's or 381's, combo, etc.).

Oh cool. I have that add on too, I love to fly old shuttle missions. I thought about the possibility of swapping out the Centaur in the SIB and using an IUS with a TDRS or something to that effect to launch.

---------- Post added at 06:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:34 AM ----------

Ah, I see, I've been using STS Payloads Expansion Pack for Fleet V4.8 by David413 which requires STS Payloads. The expansion pack doesn't simulate 51C but I could try to throw together a scenario and try to get it working.

 

[1987VCRProductions]

I threw together a scenario for STS-51C which utilizes the payload deployment options offered by Shuttle Fleet 4.8 (mainly the "USEIUS" line in the scenario code). I wanted to simulate the real mission first to get a feel for the Magnum Satellite and to practice efficiently getting into geosynchronous orbit (it's been awhile and I was rusty at it). Jeez, they don't call that satellite Magnum for nothing. It was larger than I expected. It was deployed on the 7th orbit allegedly. I tend to believe that because an IUS boost from the 7th orbit places this thing right over the USSR.

So yeah, in short, putting the IUS with satellite into orbit with my Saturn IB is a good possibility. I'll be busy the next few days but, next chance I get, I'll set up a scenario and test it.

 

[1987VCRProductions]

More historical missions are being simulated! The focus is on the early flights of the Saturn IB. I've set up scenarios for AS-201, AS-203, AS-202, and Apollo 5. As I don't have a Saturn I/IB era pad for LC-37B, AS-203 and Apollo 5 will use LC-34. 201 and 202 are ballistic flights, 201 putting CSM-009 in the South Atlantic and 202 putting CSM-011 in the North Pacific. I've got the guidance down for 201 and I'll work on 202's guidance when I get the chance. It's worth noting that the Saturn IB booster used on Apollo 5 was actually the booster that would have launched Apollo 1. The rocket was undamaged by the fire and was moved to LC-37B and repurposed to launch the first Apollo Lunar Module.

---------- Post added at 11:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:13 AM ----------

The launch guidance is done for AS-202. I'll work on launching an IUS payload on the Saturn IB.

---------- Post added 05-02-17 at 02:48 PM ---------- Previous post was 05-01-17 at 11:34 PM ----------

Some sample images of a Centaur G Prime upper stage being used on the Saturn IB:

---------- Post added at 05:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:48 PM ----------

I've set up scenarios for Skylab 2, 3, and 4. I may or may not simulate the ASTP mission, it really depends on what info I can dig up on the flight. It'll probably just be the launch scenario for Apollo.

---------- Post added 05-03-17 at 04:14 AM ---------- Previous post was 05-02-17 at 05:59 PM ----------

I've set up a scenario for simulating the Apollo-Soyuz Test Project. So that's all the historic Saturn IB flights covered. I've also simulated 10 out of 13 historic Saturn V flights.

 

[1987VCRProductions]

Now that the playsound feature has been restored to MS2015 for Orbiter 2010, I've gone and done proper countdown audio tracks for all the launches. Some launches reuse audio like from the Apollo 7 launch, ASTP Apollo launch, or the Skylab 1/A launch.

I'm really perplexed about not being able to launch Galileo direct to Jupiter with a Centaur G-Prime. There are three entries for the Centaur G on Encyclopedia Astronautica. One is the Centaur G as it was flown on the Titan IV. It's the heaviest and has the longest burn time of 625 seconds. This one is able to send Galileo direct to Jupiter but it needs every ounce of fuel to do it. This doesn't work because its weight added to the weight of Galileo means that the Saturn IB can't get it into orbit without the Centaur having to fire its own engine. The second entry is called Centaur G STS. I think this was the shorter variant and, although it's the lightest, it has the shortest burn time of 420 seconds. All the illustrations I've seen show Galileo being deployed on the end of the larger variant of the Centaur G. The third entry is the Centaur G Prime and I believe that this was the one that was meant to be launched by the Shuttle. It's lighter than the Centaur G as it was used on the Titan IV and has a burn time of 550 seconds. This is the one I'm using on my Saturn IB, although it can't seem to get Galileo to Jupiter by itself.

I tried many different things like using the second stage of an IUS as a kick motor, a PAM-D as a kick motor, and swapping out the S-IVB-200 stage with an S-IVB-500 stage that can restart. The combination that gets me the closest is with a Saturn V S-IVB/Centaur G-Prime/PAM-D stack. It gets me to Jupiter but it takes literally every single gram of fuel to get Galileo on its way. Should this be necessary? Short answer, no. Long answer, the Shuttle Centaur G-Prime is supposed to be able to do the job by itself. I can't have Galileo be mounted as a live payload because the Galileo by hutchison66 is heavier than the real Galileo at launch. Even at a historic mass of 2,562 kg, the Centaur G-Prime just can't seem to do it. I'm totally at a loss. I'm half tempted to abandon this launch but a part of me wants this to succeed.

If anyone has some thoughts on this, I'll be glad to hear them. It would be nice to have some documentation as well. STS-61-G was supposed to launch Galileo on a Centaur G from Atlantis in May of 1986. That's only 4 months after Challenger broke apart, so some mission details had to have been set down by then, at least I assume so.

---------- Post added at 03:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:08 AM ----------

It appears that the date, time, and planned orbital inclination were set, as well as the crew and the planned mission duration. Heck, even the mission patch for 61G was made. I wonder if there's more information out there like the original weight of Galileo. My theory is that the closer approach to the Sun for a VEEGA trajectory meant that Galileo needed more protection added to it.

 

[1987VCRProductions]

I learned something new last night. When the mirco meteorite shield tore off of Skylab during launch, it apparently tumbled down the entire length of the Saturn V and damaged some things. It apparently left a hole in the interstage between the S-II and the OWS and it also might have damaged the mechanism that releases the S-IC/S-II interstage ring 30 seconds after staging. The iconic interstage ring did not separate as planned and was dragged all the way into orbit by the S-II. The ring not separating is something that's confirmed by the official AS-513 Post Flight Evaluation Report. So not only did this flight have the only S-II stage to reach orbit, but also the only S-IC/S-II interstage ring to reach orbit.

I just simulated that failure and the unexpected extra 5 tons of payload doesn't seem to faze the launch vehicle much. The more you know.

 

[boogabooga]

Considering that even foam can be dangerous if it comes off during launch, I guess that it is pretty lucky that the launch did not fail.

 

[1987VCRProductions]

Okay, so it looks like the Centaur G wouldn't have sent Galileo on a direct course to Jupiter. It instead would have placed it in a heliocentric orbit. Galileo would then fire its thrusters somewhere in deep space to put it on a path where it would fly by Earth and get a gravity assist to Jupiter. The entire journey from Shuttle launch to Jupiter arrival would have taken four years.

I'm not entirely sure how to simulate that flight profile so any tips would be nice. At any rate I can properly set up the launch scenario without fudging the numbers.

 

[DaveS]

Here's the SSU development thread for our Centaur G/G Prime: http://www.orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?t=20597. It contains alot of information on both the longer G Prime and the short version, the G.

 

[1987VCRProductions]

The plot thickens. Further digging reveals that the Delta V + Earth Gravity Assist would only be used if the shorter Centaur G or 2 stage IUS with a kick motor were used as opposed to the G-Prime. I'm back to square one of trying to get Galileo direct to Jupiter on a Saturn IB with a Centaur G-Prime upper stage. The only varient of the G-Prime that I was able to get to work was the version that was used on the Titan IV. The issue there is that it needs to burn every drop of fuel to work and it's too heavy for the Saturn IB to get into space on its own.

The G-Prime designed for the Shuttle apparently burned its LOX and liquid hydrogen at a different ratio than the shorter Centaur G. The standard Centaur G burned its fuel at a ratio of 6:1 and the G-Prime at a ratio of 5:1. Would this different ratio cause a difference in impulse? Longer burn time? More bang for their buck as it were? The prime carried more fuel so it already has a longer burn time, but would that burn time be lengthened further?

Another thing I could do is strap SRBs to the Saturn IB and reinstall the restartable S-IVB-500. I'd rather not do that but I'll do what I must.

---------- Post added at 10:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:31 AM ----------

Seems that strapping Titan SRBs to the Saturn IB was actually looked into. Velcro Saturns simulates a lot of these variations now that I think about it. I kinda want to play with these variations a little. That might push this add on's release back a little but whatever. I want to give you all plenty of content to sink your teeth into.

 

[1987VCRProductions]

Looking at the Centaur G-Prime in Space Shuttle Ultra 4.2, and seeing that its specs seem to match the specs given for the Titan version of the Centaur G here, I've broken down and gone with those numbers.

Now, the Saturn IB cannot get this version of the G into orbit with the heavy Galileo on the end of it without the Centaur burning some of its own fuel. However, with a PAM-D as a kick motor to augment the Centaur fuel lost reaching orbit, I am able to get Galileo direct to Jupiter without the need to go all out and strap Titan SRBs to the Saturn IB.

Mission Accomplished. *cues fanfare*

 

[1987VCRProductions]

I'm working on simulating some of the different variants of the Saturn rockets. So far I've recreated the INT-05, INT-05A, and the INT-12. The 05 and 05A were variants of the Saturn IB that replaced the S-IB first stage with a giant, 260 inch solid rocket motor. The INT-12 is another variation of the Saturn IB that has four 5-segment SRBs from the Titan IIIE and only 4 H1 engines in the S-IB first stage instead of 8. The INT-12 is designed to ignite the S-IB core stage at sea level and have it burn parallel to the SRBs. It was similar to the INT-11 except that variant retains all 8 H1 engines and is designed to ignite the S-IB at altitude.

I also set up a couple scenarios for an alternate Apollo 9 mission where both spacecraft are launched separately on Saturn IBs. Gumdrop chases down Spider in a fashion reminiscent of the Gemini missions that involved docking with separately launched Agena Target Vehicles.

 

[boogabooga]

I think Sputnik's "Velcro Saturns" simulated some of those configurations, you may use that as reference, perhaps.

 

[1987VCRProductions]

I think Sputnik's "Velcro Saturns" simulated some of those configurations, you may use that as reference, perhaps.

I've actually used it as a reference. The meshes I used for the Titan SRBs and the 260 inch solid rocket first stages for the INT-05 and 05A are from the Velcro Rockets and Velcro Saturns add ons. The meshes I used for the Centaurs (D, G, and G-Prime) are also from Velcro Rockets. I chose to use the NASSP meshes for the Saturn rockets because they're more accurate and they look better imho.

There's still more that I would like to do and I've been tinkering with this add on whenever I get the chance. I recently figured out how to get some older add ons to work in Orbiter 2010 such as Cassini-Huygens, Ulysses, and Magellan. I'll try to set up launch scenarios for those payloads. I'm thinking about trying to get the old Viking Program add on working.

 

[1987VCRProductions]

I've simulated the INT-13 (a Saturn IB with 2 Titan UA1205 SRBs) and the INT-20 (a Saturn V but the S-II is removed from the stack, making a 2 stage launcher with a very high powered first stage). I'll be sure to post screenshots.

---------- Post added at 03:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:32 PM ----------

Here's some screenshots:

Alternate history Apollo 9. Spider readies for launch on pad A while Gumdrop waits its turn on pad B.

The Saturn INT-05 on the pad.

The INT-05A in flight.

The INT-12 in flight.

The INT-20 in flight.

 

[GLS]

Okay, so it looks like the Centaur G wouldn't have sent Galileo on a direct course to Jupiter. It instead would have placed it in a heliocentric orbit. Galileo would then fire its thrusters somewhere in deep space to put it on a path where it would fly by Earth and get a gravity assist to Jupiter. The entire journey from Shuttle launch to Jupiter arrival would have taken four years.

I'm not entirely sure how to simulate that flight profile so any tips would be nice. At any rate I can properly set up the launch scenario without fudging the numbers.

That must not be for the (last planned) 1986 launch window, as that would have Galileo sent directly to Jupiter arriving in December 1988.

 

[1987VCRProductions]

That must not be for the (last planned) 1986 launch window, as that would have Galileo sent directly to Jupiter arriving in December 1988.

Right, that comes from the booklet pertaining to the shorter Centaur G and not the G-Prime. The shorter G could not get Galileo direct to Jupiter so they would have used this flight profile with a gravity assist from Earth. This profile would also be flown if they were limited to an IUS with a PAM-S as a third stage. Such a flight profile was eventually flown, I believe, with Juno.

---------- Post added at 04:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:08 PM ----------

I forgot to show an image of the INT-13.

---------- Post added at 04:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:09 PM ----------

I know this is off topic and I apologize, but here's an illustration of that possible Galileo flight profile description:

 

[1987VCRProductions]

I got missleman01's Cassini-Huygens add on working with Orbiter 2010 P1 and Multistage2015. I've set up a scenario for launching Cassini directly to Saturn using a Saturn V-Centaur. I might also set up a scenario for launching it with a Saturn IB-Centaur if you still wish to fly the complicated Venus-Venus-Earth-Jupiter Gravity Assist flight profile.

---------- Post added 05-25-17 at 02:49 AM ---------- Previous post was 05-24-17 at 11:53 PM ----------

I set up a scenario for launching Cassini-Huygens on a Saturn IB with a Centaur G-Prime upper stage. Despite the weight of both the Centaur and the Cassini-Huygens spacecraft, there is still enough fuel left in the Centaur after parking orbit insertion to get Cassini on its way to Venus, a testament to the genius of Wernher von Braun's Saturn rocket design.

 

[1987VCRProductions]

The longer I sit on this, the more things I want to do with this add on. I have a few more items that I'll throw in and then I'll work on getting this add on ready to post on Orbit Hangar. I have ini and scenario files for launching the ATM-B and Resupply Module for Skylab B that I'll include and I'll set up some scenarios for launching Geosynchronous Orbit payloads like the OrbiComm, TDRS, and the Magnum spy satellite.

Getting this add on packaged together will be fun (that's sarcasm), I need to sit down and make a list of all the different add ons that are required. I also need to contact sputnik because I had to duplicate some of the meshes from Velcro Rockets and Velcro Saturns (one of the fairings wasn't spawning correctly after being jettisoned and I had to duplicate the Titan SRBs in order to use them).

---------- Post added at 08:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:41 AM ----------

Also, now that NASSP 7 is finally out I'll rework all the ini files to call the meshes from NASSP 7 instead of 6. Right now they call the rocket meshes from 6 and the S-IC/S-II interstage rings from the beta of 7. Should make things a little less complicated.

 

[1987VCRProductions]

I have Sputnik's blessing to redistribute a few meshes so everything is currently going smoothly. I'll be working toward a release sometime this week or the next. I'm very excited to share the work that I put into this (and to put this behind me so I can work on my AMSO soundpacks).

 

[1987VCRProductions]

I discovered that NASSP 7 has meshes for Launch Complex 37B. I just moved the flights of AS-203 and Apollo 5 to that pad as that was where they actually launched from.