McCain or Obama?

Which Canidate do you want to win the election?

  • McCain

    Votes: 54 36.2%
  • Obama

    Votes: 95 63.8%

  • Total voters
    149
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I think when comparing Dubbya to Slick Willy, one quote from a famous leftist movie comes into my head.

You know, you're in more dire need of a :censored: than any white man in history.

(Spoken by Robin Williams as Adrian Kronauer, "Good Morning, Vietnam")
 
'Vote to cancel out your (crazy) neighbor' in N. Carolina


;)
 
...Only because Stalinism and other forms of tyranny (Juche) cause deaths by government activity, these can hardly be attributed to be "Death by communism" - communism and rule of the communist party have little in common...

What does that mean?
You can't separate communism and the rule of the communist party. That's the whole point.
 
What does that mean?
You can't separate communism and the rule of the communist party. That's the whole point.

No, you can indeed.

Marxism did never call for a single party rule. That idea was added in Leninism. The communist party rule is one of the greatest points of criticism among socialist scientists. Marx preferred a multi-party system with loose organization. Lenin thought that such a system was too weak for overthrowing the Tzar and added a rigid organization structure in a monolithic party to the concept. With the final addition, that the party is by definition always right.
 
these examples have very little to do with a candidate of a democratic party in the USA, who does not even pretend socialism. Social programs are not socialism...

The U.S. Government currently spends the majority of the money that it receives, on social programs (which are increasingly proving to be unsustainable).

Barack Obama's intent is not merely more governmental social programs (for which additional programs, he proposes to expend about a trillion dollars more, per year). Instead, his further intent is what he calls "spreading the wealth," "redistributive change" and "social and economic justice."

While such policies would not necessarily characterize "socialism," by its strict definition, nevertheless they represent its ethical philosophy.

"Socialism," by strict definition, is an economic system wherein capital is owned by the government. "Ownership" is the (exclusive) prerogative to dispose, which means that in a socialist economic system, it is the government's prerogative, to dispose of economic materials.

If an object is "owned" by you, it is you alone, who may decide what is to be done with that object. You may keep it, or trade it, or simply give it away, to whomever you wish.

"Spreading the wealth" ("redistribution") presumes, as an axiom, that "the wealth" is owned by government, and it is government alone, which may decide what is to be done with it. The government may keep it, or give it to whomever it wishes, this being its prerogative. For example, the wages that are paid, in exchange for labor, may be permitted to be possessed by the one who performed the labor, or they may instead be confiscated and given to someone else; the government will decide what is to be done with those wages.

"Wealth" is not necessarily equivalent to "capital," so that such presumed governmental ownership of "the wealth," is not precisely equivalent to governmental ownership of capital, and thus "socialism" per se; but the philosophical axiom is the same.

BTW, you're the one, who introduced the subject of "communism," which was explicitly defined by Marx and Engels, as "the abolition of private property" (with the stated intent to distinguish it, among other purported representations of "socialism"). Additionally, since you also introduced the subject of "fascism," its ethic is pretty similar (although not specifically economic) - being the philosophical proposition that a person's value is defined by his contribution to his society, and that the political State, as a representation of that society, is the arbiter of that value, and has the prerogative to define and to construct it.

To my mind, such philosophies represent governmental arrogance, also called "tyranny." Thomas Jefferson wrote that people tend to be willing to tolerate a considerable amount of tyranny, but I don't suppose that it is a good idea to vote for it (even for the sake of joining the crowd/"wave").
 
The U.S. Government currently spends the majority of the money that it receives, on social programs (which are increasingly proving to be unsustainable).

Yes slightly. But what about the two spendings which create a nearly equally as strong contribution to the expenses: Military and interests?

Is military sustainable? And are exploding interests in the interest of the citizens?


Compared to other countries, the USA have a very very low spending for social programs and most political discussion is the growing problem to pay this from the low taxes if the rules don't change.

If you look at Germany, we pay less taxes as you do. Including our church tax. But we pay most of the social programs with money gathered additionally to the taxes, so that over 50% of our incomes can end in government programs (including Health care and pensions).

You still don't know what pain it can be looking at the salary calculations. ;)

The hardest changes in the social programs had actually been done by social-democratic parties in Europe, and Obama is likely to do similar changes to concentrate the expenses more on the people who deserve it most and reduce the expenses for the softer cases. But still, an increase in social funding in the USA would not be the worst... it would for example make it harder for capitalist pigs to exploit people by paying minimal wages for workers. ;)

(A working social network reduces the pressure to keep a bad job even, if it is practically exploitation)
 
a bunch of morbid righteous inquiry. Kenneth Starr any one?

Kenneth Starr was widely regarded as being one of the preeminent legal scholars in the country, expected as very likely to end up on the Supreme Court. He was assigned to be a governmental investigator, during which time he was presented with testimonial and documentary evidence that the U.S. President was planning to commit perjury in a federal trial, and in cooperation with another witness, whom he had encouraged to commit perjury, also. What do you propose that such a federal governmental investigator should have done about that?

What he did do, was to investigate it and report the facts that he found - for which action, he was viciously villified, this being an act of political propaganda seeking to defend the political interests of Mr. Clinton and his political Party. Starr's dutiful investigation and report, were for that purpose characterized, publicly, as a morbid and prurient interest, and such, in Clinton's "private life," rather than as being in accordance with his professional assignment to investigate and provide a report about the evidently illegal behavior by President Clinton.

The propaganda obviously found a large, agreeably receptive audience, particularly among persons who regarded the political interests of Mr. Clinton and his political Party, as their own interests, also. Mr. Starr's reputation then usefully (for them) became that of a sexual voyeur, rather than as a governmental investigator with the long record of excellent legal scholarship that he had, and as an honorable federal court judge, and he became no longer likely to become a member of the Supreme Court.

The public treatment of him, by Clinton and his political allies, was quite consistent with the similar techniques that they employed, seeking to destroy other of their political adversaries and inconveniences.
 
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Ahem, just wondering, is this a real thing or a fake? :clap:

0002zxqs
 
Obama Claus:

Just today in Sarasota, Fla., the Democratic presidential nominee said that he'd:

  • "give a tax break to 95 percent of Americans who work every day and get taxes taken out of their paycheck every week";
  • "eliminate income taxes on Social Security for seniors making under $50,000";
  • "give homeowners and working parents additional tax breaks";
  • not increase taxes on anyone if they "make under $250,000; you will not see your taxes increase by a single dime –- not your income taxes, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains tax";
  • "end those breaks to companies that ship jobs overseas";
  • "give tax breaks to companies that invest right here in the United States";
  • "eliminate capital gains taxes for small businesses and start-up companies that are the engine of job creation in this country";
  • "create two million new jobs by rebuilding our crumbling roads, and bridges, and schools -- by laying broadband lines to reach every corner of the country";
  • "invest $15 billion a year in renewable sources of energy to create five million new energy jobs over the next decade";
  • "reopen old factories, old plants, to build solar panels, and wind turbines";
  • build "a new electricity grid";
  • "build the fuel efficient cars of tomorrow";
  • "eliminate the oil we import from the Middle East in 10 years";
  • "lower premiums" for those who already have health insurance;
  • "if you don't have health insurance, you'll be able to get the same kind of health insurance that members of Congress give themselves";
  • "end discrimination by insurance companies to the sick and those who need care the most";
  • "invest in early childhood education";
  • "recruit an army of new teachers";
  • "pay our teachers higher salaries, give them more support. But ... also demand higher standards and more accountability";
  • "make a deal with every young person who's here and every young person in America: If you are willing to commit yourself to national service, whether it's serving in our military or in the Peace Corps, working in a veterans home or a homeless shelter, then we will guarantee that you can afford to go to college no ifs ands or buts";
  • "stop spending $10 billion a month in Iraq whole the Iraqis have a huge surplus";
  • "end this war in Iraq";
  • "finish the fight and snuff out al Qaeda and bin Laden";
  • "increase our ground troops and our investments in the finest fighting force in the world";
  • "invest in 21st century technologies so that our men and women have the best training and equipment when they deploy into combat and the care and benefits they have earned when they come home";
  • "No more homeless veterans"; and
  • "no more fighting for disability payments."
This on top of his 30-minute infomercial last night, and the myriad other pledges and promises he's made throughout the last 21 months.

No wonder so many people have heard something they like from him. What a guy!
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The Constellation Project isn't even in the top 30 promises? How about McCain's?

I don't know what McCain's position on Constellation is but, regardless of who wins the election, unless there is an economic miracle in the next six months or so, there is a very good chance that Constellation will be dead in the next budget.
 
I don't know what McCain's position on Constellation is but, regardless of who wins the election, unless there is an economic miracle in the next six months or so, there is a very good chance that Constellation will be dead in the next budget.

As well as SpaceX, which relies much heavier on loans and good conditions on the financial markets than NASA. Tesla is already in troubled waters as they have problems getting the money for the next growth step together.
 
The problem of the USA is never the lack of jobs. The problem is the lack of payment. If people can have two jobs and need them for financing their life, something is wrong - the cost of a work hour.

What I am saying is that if Obama is elevted this will very likely become a serious problem.
 
What I am saying is that if Obama is elevted this will very likely become a serious problem.

OK, you say this. But what rational reason do you have to expect this?
 
Most people in america are employed by companies that make over $250,000 per year. If Obama is elected then he will tax the snot out of those companies. If the companies have a lot less money to spend then they will have less money to hire employs, and they will start to let go of some unnessecary positions. If they let go of employs and stop hiring as many then more people will be jobless.

I also do not agree woth the whole concept of spreading the wealth, taking money from people who have worked hard to earn it and giving it to others is just not fair, I do not want to recieve money that I didn't earn, I would like to be treated exactly the same as everyone else.
 
@ Urwumpe. Bzzzzzzzzzzzt. That answer is incorrect. See my post concerning Obama and his position on Constellation. Not on his watch. And oh yeah massive cutbacks for NASA budget too. McCain is very much to keep us on track going to the moon.
 
Most people in america are employed by companies that make over $250,000 per year. If Obama is elected then he will tax the snot out of those companies. If the companies have a lot less money to spend then they will have less money to hire employs, and they will start to let go of some unnessecary positions. If they let go of employs and stop hiring as many then more people will be jobless...


Those people will also lose their employer sponsored health insurance, dumping them into the government sponsored plan Obama has promised, increasing government spending still further, inspiring additional tax increases on those evil rich people and their pawns, the greedy corporations.
 
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