McCain or Obama?

[GregBurch]

Yeah -- those terrible right-wing hate-mongers, with their inflamed rhetoric and nasty images. Nothing like this:

http://michellemalkin.com/2008/10/12/crush-the-obamedia-narrative-look-whos-gripped-by-insane-rage/

... sounds like a one-way mirror to me ...

 

[Pilot7893]

Greg: You mean the same people who printed "Barack Osama" on the forms?

Or "Obama Bin Ladin?"

 

[Urwumpe]

Yeah -- those terrible right-wing hate-mongers, with their inflamed rhetoric and nasty images. Nothing like this:

http://michellemalkin.com/2008/10/12/crush-the-obamedia-narrative-look-whos-gripped-by-insane-rage/

... sounds like a one-way mirror to me ...

Or like a very stupid way to argue. Because once you pull out all the idiots of the nation to say "Hey, there are a few 'democrats', who do the same stuff", the right-wing suddenly has to deal with their own demons.

The problem is not the existence of idiots who claim to support one side of the match. The problem is one side searching actively the support of them. And the problem is not McCain, who is smart enough to notice the consequences.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/McCain_asks_crowd_to_be_respectful_of_Obama.html

It is a difference, if things happen inside the Internet or on Obama's own public events.

 

[GregBurch]

Or like a very stupid way to argue. Because once you pull out all the idiots of the nation to say "Hey, there are a few 'democrats', who do the same stuff", the right-wing suddenly has to deal with their own demons.

The problem is not the existence of idiots who claim to support one side of the match. The problem is one side searching actively the support of them. And the problem is not McCain, who is smart enough to notice the consequences.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/McCain_asks_crowd_to_be_respectful_of_Obama.html

It is a difference, if things happen inside the Internet or on Obama's own public events.

Hey -- I'm not "arguing" by using those examples. I'm just pointing out that there's been seven and half years of white-hot hate rhetoric aimed at Bush.

What that may mean, I couldn't say, and at this point, it doesn't matter. Polling right now indicates that it wouldn't matter to the results of the election if it were proven that Obama was personally directing ACORN's vote fraud activities, and a genuine video of Bill Ayers giving Obama bomb-making instructions two weeks ago were found. The electorate has been panicked into a broad and deep percption that "the economy has been wrecked by evil capitalists" and the resurrection of William F. Buckley Jr. and Barry Goldwater riding at the right hand of Ayn Rand wouldn't change that.

 

[Urwumpe]

..., and a genuine video of Bill Ayers giving Obama bomb-making instructions two weeks ago were found.

Can you tell where?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obama–Ayers_controversy#Interaction_between_Obama_and_Ayers

 

[GregBurch]

Can you tell where?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obama–Ayers_controversy#Interaction_between_Obama_and_Ayers

Not if you depend on the New York Times for information:

http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2008/10/the-times-ha-sp.html

 

[Urwumpe]

Not if you depend on the New York Times for information:

http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2008/10/the-times-ha-sp.html

You have not answered my question. Where is the direct link that Ayers taught Obama in building bombs? Sitting together in the same charity organization meeting twice per year is not terrorism, Mr. Burch. Rumsfeld had been photographed shaking hands with Saddam Hussein, does that alone make him a supporter of terrorism for you?

Just remember: When Ayers turned himself to authorities from being on the run for 9 years, Obama was still only 19. And Ayers is today not "just another terrorist", but actually, a distinguished professor for education (speciality: Early childhood).

Actually, even if Obama and Ayers would be friends (which they are not), Ayers is in the worst case "The last US communist who would admit it" (from his 1995 interview).

EDIT: And BTW... he has one of the most boring blogs I have ever read in the last weeks.

http://billayers.wordpress.com/

 

[GregBurch]

I'm sorry, my humor missed the mark. My point was that EVEN IF such a thing were to be found -- irrefutable evidence that Obama in fact shares Ayers political ideology -- it would have no effect on the election at this point.

FWIW, I suspect that Obama may well have shared those radical leftist sentiments at one point -- his autobiography certainly gives one all the evidence one would need to conclude this. But at this point he is just a fairly standard left-leaning "mainstream" Democratic Party politician -- he pandered to the usual list of Democratic Party victim groups to win the primaries, then moved to the center once he got nominated so as not to scare the broad middle part of the US electorate.

It's funny to see the more extreme leftists in their own fora writing for their own audiences now, reassuring each other that Obama doesn't REALLY mean the things he's saying right now to get elected.

 

[Urwumpe]

Well, also why not. He is not planning to become president of the democratic party. For getting elected, he has to represent all citizens. With being far left, you can't even become senator.

But still, his vita makes him sure interesting for people who see the lack of social justice as key failing of the western societies.

"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries." -- Winston Churchill

 

[GregBurch]

Well, also why not. He is not planning to become president of the democratic party. For getting elected, he has to represent all citizens. With being far left, you can't even become senator.

But still, his vita makes him sure interesting for people who see the lack of social justice as key failing of the western societies.

"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries." -- Winston Churchill

I have to go off to the real world -- that cruel, capitalist world of unbridled competition -- to try to eke out a living, so only time for one, cryptic, parting shot:

"Social justice" -- what could it possibly MEAN? What does that term actually, really MEAN?

 

[Urwumpe]

"Social justice" -- what could it possibly MEAN? What does that term actually, really MEAN?

Social justice, sometimes called civil justice, refers to the concept of a society in which justice is achieved in every aspect of society, rather than merely the administration of law. It is generally thought of as a world which affords individuals and groups fair treatment and an impartial share of the benefits of society. (Different proponents of social justice have developed different interpretations of what constitutes fair treatment and an impartial share.) It can also refer to the distribution of advantages and disadvantages within a society.

It is one of the key elements behind the German idea of social market economy, which also got forgotten here, as you can see in the massive drain of the middle class in Germany following the fall of the iron curtain.

 

[simonpro]

Well it's very interesting here in Kenya. Currently the village where Obama's grandmother came from is under 24 hour police and army protection. There's been a lot of journalists and a LOT of party officials snooping around for dirt. Most outlandish thing I've heard so far is people trying to persuade villagers into saying that Obama's great-grandfather was a rapist.
Absolutely mad.

 

[Andy44]

I love how people like to call Palin a nazi. Let me know when you see "Palin Youth Brigades" and then we'll talk.

When it comes to playing dirty, having a bunch of adoring children who worship you could be a handy thing.

 

[Star explorer]

how does this thread keep getting post on it. i mean id have to admit its BORING:suicide:

 

[pattersoncr]

how does this thread keep getting post on it. i mean id have to admit its BORING:suicide:

Then don't read it.

 

[Star explorer]

Then don't read it.

i dont i just want to know how others can actually read:starwars:

 

[Yoda]

You guys are boring me to death with this senseless discussion.

:boredom:

 

[GregBurch]

i dont i just want to know how others can actually read:starwars:

On one level, I suppose it's like sports. Do you follow sports? I don't, but a lot of people do. It's a contest, it has drama. Monkeys like to watch that sort of thing.

On another level, once in a while, political contests end up being relevant to real people's actual lives -- they can end up effecting lots of people's lives a lot. What if Lincoln hadn't been elected in 1860? What if Nixon hadn't been so paranoid? What if Jimmy Carter had been re-elected in 1980? It's hard not to imagine these things didn't have a profound effect on lots of people's lives.


-----Posted Added-----

Social justice, sometimes called civil justice, refers to the concept of a society in which justice is achieved in every aspect of society, rather than merely the administration of law. It is generally thought of as a world which affords individuals and groups fair treatment and an impartial share of the benefits of society. (Different proponents of social justice have developed different interpretations of what constitutes fair treatment and an impartial share.) It can also refer to the distribution of advantages and disadvantages within a society.

It is one of the key elements behind the German idea of social market economy, which also got forgotten here, as you can see in the massive drain of the middle class in Germany following the fall of the iron curtain.

Right. Well, this is one of those places where we have a profound disagreement. I know what justice is. I know what society is. I know what a just society looks like, and what an unjust society looks like. But I don't know what "social justice" is. The definition you offered (which I know to be widely accepted) doesn't help me understand the concept at all.

 

[Yoda]

Just on a personal level ( not an educated reason to vote for someone).

I met McCain a few years ago and talked with him a great deal; nice man, down to earth and I respect him for beeing a liberal Republican and some of the idea's he has, but in MY PERSONAL OPINION:

1. We cannot afford as a country to continue this war in Iraq as he is planning to do and thus running our economy further into the ground.
2. I don't care much for his running mate; on a pure intuitional level she strikes me as the type that will stick a knife in your back while she smiles to your face.
3. McCain is simply too damn old for the job and the stresses it brings with it; he won't live to see the end of his firts term and then we'll be stuck with that thing from Alaska.

That does however NOT mean I like Obama; frankly I think it's sad with all the people that COULD have been running (Colin Powell, Hillary) we end up with these two jokers in the end.

But all in all I have to say for myself that we have the better chance of change in this country with Obama and I will therefore give him my vote in my swingstate of Colorado.

Like I said, a uneducated opinion ( I'm in the medical field and dont give a hoot about politics) but there it is.

No lengthy follow-up discussion necessary.........

 

[simonpro]

I can't understand how anyone couldn't care about politics. It affects the future of your country and your own future, even at the most selfish level you'd think one would care about their future.