McCain or Obama?

[fort]

I'll be catching up on all the name-calling and high-toned rhetoric as time allows, but I thought I'd just stop by now that I have some juice running in the house to toss some gasoline on the fire:

Bonjour,

If you could find during these ten last years all these other moments when this same candidate defended in his speeches, his interventions, of the doctrines opposed concerning the market, in favour, this time, of a deregulation and of the "laisser-faire" , it would be well too.

 

[GregBurch]

Bonjour,

If you could find during these ten last years all these other moments when this same candidate defended in his speeches, his interventions, of the doctrines opposed concerning the market, in favour, this time, of a deregulation and of the "laisser-faire" , it would be well too.

I'm not sure I understand your point -- I think there's a language barrier here. But if you're saying that there are many instances when McCain has spoken in favor of free enterprise, then that would be a reason for me to support him.

The interventions that are happening now are necessary because of a serious problem in the structure of major financial institutions. The nature of that problem is NOT simple. But "too much freedom" is far, far too simplistic a diagnosis, and adding "more regulation" is far too simple a prescription.

On another note, I find the 37-29 vote in favor of Obama that occurred over the days I was out of touch from the hurricane rather interesting. I wonder how that happened, with the polls showing a dead-heat in the US. Must be our sophisticated friends showing up to make sure we're not embarrassed by publicly favoring the candidate of the morons!

 

[simonpro]

Why is there such a need to discuss politics on this forum ? Didn't we all decide in the last forum set-up that this was totally fruitless ?

In my opnion: stick to orbiter related matters and we'll all see what happens in November.

Of course it's fruitless. Doesn't mean it's not interesting though.
I enjoy reading these debates because although I find about 75% of the posts completely delusional I still learn a lot about the state of politics in the USA.
There's only so much I can pick up from newspapers and briefings, they don't give the whole picture so it's nice to be able to get a feel for what people really think, either from my US friends or from people on here.

 

[Urwumpe]

Must be our sophisticated friends showing up to make sure we're not embarrassed by publicly favoring the candidate of the morons!

They are just busy making sure, you are not favoring the candidate of the Mormons.

Sorry, can't resist this pun.:lol:

 

[GregBurch]

They are just busy making sure, you are not favoring the candidate of the Mormons.

Sorry, can't resist this pun.:lol:

MODERATOR EDIT...Offensive materal removed....

..... Have you ever seen the South Park episode about Mormonism? If not, it's comedy gold ...

 

[Urwumpe]

MODERATOR EDIT. Offensive phrase removed. Have you ever seen the South Park episode about Mormonism? If not, it's comedy gold ...

No, I only remember the scene of the purgatory, where all people of various religions expect to go to heaven and then hear "Sorry, but had the wrong faith, you go to hell.". And then the unexpected question "What was the right faith?" - "The Mormons".

 

[fort]

Gregburch,


Not, not, your reading was good. and your answer adequate. And of course, all this is not so simple. I have the age to start to know it. And can be the experiment. But simply, when one does not know, one says, simply, still: "I do not know". There is no shame not to have an opinion on all. It is what I pointed out concerning this candidate. What does not exonerate the other of its own changes of course.

For any statement: to vote, here or elsewhere B Obama or MC Cain does not interest me. But to try to forge me a judgement concerning the Democrats and the Republicans, yes.

 

[Eagle]

Perhaps this post fits better in the sticks & stones thread...But I found this talk surprisingly informative regarding what Liberals and Conservatives value AND how this all relates to Humans as social creatures.
http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/jonathan_haidt_on_the_moral_mind.html

 

[replicant]

1) Keep in mind who was Jesus' audience. As I recall, he had nothing whatsoever to say about what should be governmental policy (something perhaps worthy of being kept in mind, I daresay, by so many who would argue that "Christian compassion" and What-Would-Jesus-Do, is properly exemplified by the advocacy and implementation of governmental social programs), while American citizens do.

I agree completely. My desire for social programs comes not from "what would Jesus do", but from my whole bargain or beg philosophy.

2) Jesus paid perhaps his highest compliment, to a soldier - a man who, when asking Jesus to heal his servant, stated that, as a soldier, he was quite experienced in the giving and receiving of commands, and he was confident that Jesus could efficaciously command the restoration of health, to his servant. Jesus praised him for such faith and directed the attention of his disciples, to it. He never criticized or condemned the man for being a soldier.

Nor would he ever, and I never implied that he would. My arguement was about war, not about soldiers. You said it yourself, Jesus's compliment had absolutely nothing to do with whether he was a soldier or not. It had to do with the man's faith.

3)If you think that war is a task that God or Jesus would oppose, then that is your religious understanding, isn't it?

Yes it is. There is no way that I will ever pull the trigger on another human being and think that makes me right with Jesus.

By the way, it is not Jesus or God, they are one and the same.

Or are you proposing that religious opinions should be kept out of politics?

Yes. I have stated that many times. The total separation of church and state. As may have been stated before, I let my faith influence my secular judgement, and many on both sides do the same thing. I have no issue with that. What I take issue with is the OFFICIAL use of it on the floor of the governing body. No official state law, rule, action, war, program, or anything else should ever be an official task or desire of God. Because then it becomes an issue of whose God. Since all citizens pay taxes, (at least most do), and not all are Christians, that goes against a government of the people. There must never be an official state religion. Once any member of Government says any official state action is ordained by God, then they imply that the official government of the nation is THEIR God.

 

[Urwumpe]

By the way, it is not Jesus or God, they are one and the same.

Don't mention trinity. God, Holy Ghost and Jesus being one and the same would damage some world views. Most republican right ideals look pretty old-testamentary, but not necessarily Christian.

 

[Eagle]

Meh, politics repeat itself. Go check the likes of huffingtonpost and McCain/Palin is being given the same characterizations as Bush/Cheney.

Apparently McCain is a dumbass fool who doesn't know what's going on. Palin is the mastermind of the group, but she's also a dumb emptyhead. In annother similarity to Darth Cheney her daughter marks her as a hypocrite. Oh and instead of eating babies like Cheney, she just likes them retarded.

Obama is Kerry 2, some detached aloof who promises everything to anyone. Never really learned or did much outiside of politics. Thinks that his mental concept of the world matches real life. An idealist who won't adapt his policies to even be applicable to reality. Oh, and his running mate is a less interesting carbon copy who has been living in a mental ivory tower longer than he has.

Bah, I quit.

 

[Urwumpe]

Oh, Sarah Palin and Cheney sure are similar - they are both vicious.

But also, I think McCain and Obama are pretty similar and could be pretty well buddies, if they wouldn't have to be rivals for the same job. Their political positions are different, but not opposing. They are both rebels against the mainstream inside their party. And they both have a VP candidate who is supported by the main stream as price. They are both smart and have willpower, they are both not victims of the dogma, that the everyday decisions of the last government have to be the only pragmatic way.

Of course, Obama would still be the more favorable candidate for Europeans, as he is closer in mind. But I don't think, we would be punished by a candidate McCain. A president Palin on the other hand, would be a critical event. Just as a president Biden would be likely a stagnation.

 

[Rixile]

I am all for Mccain. He wishes to cut taxes; help our economical struggle. He has character too which is a great aspect for a president in my opinion. Besides, obama is too young.

 

[Cairan]

I am all for Mccain. He wishes to cut taxes;

So does Obama, for 95% of the population... the top 5% don't deserve it with all the possible loopholes in the tax code that makes it possible to deduct stuff you can't when you're in the middle class...

help our economical struggle.

By firing the head of the SEC... which by the way the President cannot actually do, all he could do his remove him as chairman of the SEC and the guy would still get his paycheck....

And drilling offshore and Alaska for a mere 200,000 barrels of oil a day of which not a single drop would flow during his whole hypothetical 2-terms... The problem is that the US consumes 25% of the oil on the globe, with 3% of the reserves (tapped or not) and 6% of the population... Cut down consumption by 10% and you've already dealt with the supply-vs-demand issue as much as drilling, and it sure won't take 10+ years to come online and waste more of the precious gooey black stuff...

He has character too which is a great aspect for a president in my opinion.

So does Obama, they both have their strenghts and weaknesses, but both have a presidential character in my opinion. One does by his inspirational virtues, the other by his devotion to what he believes is best for his country.

Besides, obama is too young.

Careful there... One could say McCain's too old... Age, gender and color are a thing of the past when it comes to qualification for the top job in the country. How about Palin... She's too blind? Too pretty? You get the idea...

 

[fort]

Besides, obama is too young.

Be careful.

All one each one here could answer you that you east can be you even too young person to put forth a judgement concerning which is too young person or sufficiently old to postulate with the presidency of the United States.

You would be can be in this case in the situation of the sprinkled sprinkler.

 

[GregBurch]

Don't mention trinity. God, Holy Ghost and Jesus being one and the same would damage some world views. Most republican right ideals look pretty old-testamentary, but not necessarily Christian.

I'm going to be on and off with having to maintain the generator that's running power to my house, but a quick note here while I have juice.

It seems that this comment could EASILY be interpreted as "insulting religion" by many people. Personally, it doesn't bother me. But, well, since "religion" is such a sacred topic ....

 

[Urwumpe]

It seems that this comment could EASILY be interpreted as "insulting religion" by many people. Personally, it doesn't bother me. But, well, since "religion" is such a sacred topic ....

Of course. But on the other hand, anything can be interpreted as insulting religion.

So, if somebody wants to be insulted, it does not matter, what I write. Even nothing would be counting against me.

And I think, my opinion on the religion of other people, is my right. Just as these people have the same right to have an opinion on my religion - or better: My religious views. I know why I am a protestant. And I know why I am a lousy one.

 

[Omhra]

Just finished reading this entire thread...
I won't even touch it.
Obama and an unknown future (always) over a known definite McCain outcome.

 

[Eagle]

I'm excited to watch the debates when they come up. September 26 (This Friday) is the first one, the VP debate is October 2.

I won't even touch it.

Probably a wise choice. The internet never was very good at changing anyone's opinions.

 

[GregBurch]

Seeing as how the poll in this thread is running far, far above the pro-Obama opinions expressed in national US polls, I'm concluding that the general sentiment here is significantly more pro-Obama than a random sampling of US citizens would reveal. Therefore, it shouldn't be hard to get some response to this item: I'd like to know how Obama supporters here respond to this:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/160179

I'm not interested in how McCain supporters respond -- it's easy for me to guess that. I'd like some genuine, non-argumentative explanations from real Obama supporters. Also, note that this article comes from the reliably left-leaning Newsweek, so I can't be accused of cherry-picking some crazed right-wing nutjob blog for this.