Local Space Transportation System Redux

[pattersoncr]

BTW, there have now been over 160 downloads of the first addon in this series and not a peep of feedback. I don't know if it's so broken that it's unusable, or so great that people can't stop flying long enough to let me know if it's working or that it's so mundane that it's not worth a comment.

OK, I'll start.
First off, the new ship looks great Greg.:speakcool:
I though that Gilgamesh ought to be great at hauling cargo containers. A added a BSPC6 cradle to one of the stock scenarios and loaded it into the Gilgamesh's cargo bay. Unfortunately, the corners stick thru the framework. Any chance of a cargo cradle sized for Gilgamesh?
Also, after reading the documentation (well done as always on that), why did you size the delta-V capacity for a plane change before TLI? Wouldn't an off plane transfer be used in "real life" (or at least a plane change outside of LEO)?
And as for Pablo's comments: :theysaid:

Keep up the great work Greg!

 

[ar81]

I'm tied up with work and family right now -- but I'm reading this thread out of the corner of my eye. Pablo's being merciless on this, and I don't blame him. He's right that I could do a lot more with C++ coded .dlls. I'm thinking ....

I am not being merciless... I am being ruthless... :lol:
INI files are already code.
Art is great master/teacher, since Computertex learned many things from him.
What I see is the scary perspective of having to learn something new and the logical fear we all have about screwing up or not making a masterpiece since the very beginning.

But I can tell you that you defeated the impossible when you mastered something that was barely documented (making INI files). You learned to understand the logic behind coding INI files and scenarios.

So I feel the fear is not justified. Coding INI files, scenarios or a programming language always bring headaches. But when you see the result of any simple code is the same feeling you had when you finally docked ISS for the first time.

I can tell you that there is more reward ahead in the world of programming. It is just waiting for you to step into that realm. :speakcool:

 

[computerex]

since Computertex learned many things from him.

....Ahem..Ahhh...No..*cough*...ahh....awkward...

Greg, Pablo is right about one thing....You need to learn c++! I started when I was 10-11 (I met Art when I was 15, and I just turned 16 ), so if I could do it, I am sure you can!

 

[n0mad23]

And when did the Gilgamesh become the Prometheus? And why?

 

[tblaxland]

Ar81's comments reminded me of a recent email conversation I had with n0mad23 about engineering and science as art forms. I had never thought of what I did (engineering) as art before, yet I coming away agreeing with n0mad23 that is was due to its creative nature.

That said, let me add my two cents about my limited experience coding addons. I'll be honest, my C++ skills are not great and I had no great exposure to the language or the Orbiter SDK before I started with revising AttitudeMFD. I did have one thing though, a clear goal of what I wanted to achieve. I just needed to figure out how to get there. The process for me involved reading lots of sample code, lots of Googling to figure out what it all meant and asking the occasional question on the forum.

I am now coding my first vessel module so I can say I have only just dipped my toe into the vast ocean of the Orbiter SDK. There is so much that can be done there once you wrap your head around it. A familiarity with C++ is helpful though. At times I find myself distracted from Orbiter issues by more mundane issues of C++ syntax and structure. So I recommend doing what I did and start by modifying another addon, a little at a time. There are plenty of samples included in the SDK to play with.

And ask on the forum for help. The resourcefulness of this community is amazing.

Greg, good luck and best wishes.

 

[Urwumpe]

I would say, ANYBODY can learn C++. You can't become a worse C++ coder than most students on my university, which should have listened to many lectures explaining advanced development concepts, but fail to apply them in real development.

Also, software development itself is 10% theoretical knowledge and 90% practical experience. And 100% discipline. Once you started coding, you teach yourself pretty fast, what is good practice and what you should better avoid.

Also, IMHO, converting from Spacecraft3.dll to a dedicated C++ module is so mechanic, that it should be possible writing an application to create program code as start.

 

[GregBurch]

... stopping by over morning coffee. I appreciate that the encouragement to "kick it up a notch" is founded on some small feeling that my addon work to date has been worthy of improvement.

My resistance to this idea is an annoyance to myself, I must admit. Twenty five years ago, when I went back to university to get my law degree, I was one of only two people in my starting class of over 100 that had a personal computer -- an Apple IIe and a daisy wheel printer for which I paid the then astronomical sum of $2,000. One of the things I did to keep myself sane during the long hours of studying law was teaching myself a little BASIC programming, ultimately writing a gravity simulator based on program code I found in a magazine. I was the first member of the Texas Law Review to write my "note" (the lawyers on the forum will know what that means) on a home computer and transfer it to the law school's Wang by modem -- a technological achievement of Manhattan project proportions, considering the state of the art at the time.

So, buried deep in the unused folds of my aging cerebral cortex, the basic skills are probably there ....

I'm sure there are some good "getting started" tutorials out there, that include lists of the software I'd need, and some exercises I could try to get the feel for what I'd be undertaking. I'd appreciate any pointers there might be to those things.

Also, this comment:

Also, IMHO, converting from Spacecraft3.dll to a dedicated C++ module is so mechanic, that it should be possible writing an application to create program code as start.

is intriguing. It would be great if there was an application that would translate a spacecraft3 .ini file into a C++ code block that would provide a foundation one could work from, since starting from a blank screen is a little initimidating ....

GB

 

[Art]

When you get done thinking, and the Braniff Girls decide to leave you to your own devices, send me an note. I will send you a compiler-in-a-box, complete with annotated ship templates where all you need to do is fill in familliar numbers. After that, you hit F7 to run the compiler, and it produces a .dll. Going from there, and armed with the API, you can do anything. You do not have to start with a blank screen...I provide a color-coded annotated template. It is childs play.

 

[GregBurch]

When you get done thinking, and the Braniff Girls decide to leave you to your own devices, send me an note. I will send you a compiler-in-a-box, complete with annotated ship templates where all you need to do is fill in familliar numbers. After that, you hit F7 to run the compiler, and it produces a .dll. Going from there, and armed with the API, you can do anything. You do not have to start with a blank screen...I provide a color-coded annotated template. It is childs play.

Thanks -- that sounds like just what I need.

... now here's something really weird. I'm not sure what you mean by the reference to "the Braniff Girls," but your reference is spookily apt. My wife was a Braniff stewardess when she was younger (and anyone who remembers Braniff should know what that means, and her female relatives -- who were visiting us -- all share the same stunning gene pattern) -- did I mention that once before on the forum?

 

[ar81]

First of all, Computer tex, I apologize for the misunderstanding. I really thought Art was your C++ teacher...

Now for Greg...

Visual Basic is an evolved version of the old BASIC, which is an evolved version of FORTRAN (Formula Translation) language and it is easy for beginners.

C++ uses a more complex syntax, as blocks are surrounded by brackets instead of BEGIN and END lines, and so on.

But in the end C++, Visual Basic and INI files are just code.
The added complexity is explained by the added flexibility.

How do I calculate normals? Do you think it is magic?
Well, be amazed. It is not magic. It is like coding an INI file.
Someone who does not know anything about INI files could think you are a magician, a wizard...

Making Mesh Wizard is just the product of long hours of work, for the amount of headaches is small compared to the amount of code. So it is more an exercise of persistence, just like tweaking a mesh and modelling is an exercise of persistence.

Do not let yourself be impressed by the weird syntax and words of C++.
It is just syntax, like moving from English to Spanish.

I have not moved because I have not got to setup the C++ compile tools properly. I must be doing something wrong. And I am in the process of coding Space Orbinomics II. But I feel more and more compelled to learn C++. It is just a matter of time before I do that too.

When I made all these code generators I discovered that many pieces of generic code can be turned into templates, and that's what Vinka did. When you see Frankeincoder tutorial you see that a vessel.cpp file is a somehow more complex INI file, but in the end it is about the same.

 

[Art]

The real bad news:

Time really flies better than any ship.

Computerex, I have an e-mail from you in my outlook backup from mid 2005....about the same time Pablo and I first started communicating. I learned much about how add-ons worked from Pablo.
TL8 just requested a link for a compiler and sample set up (Frankeincoder tutorial and orbiter module compiler). http://arsponline.org/TheFrontier/download/OrbiterCompiler.zip

Here it is.
It takes only a few minutes to set up IAW the provided documentation.

The Braniff issue came up a few months before the 2006 version of orbiter came out, when I was in the middle of tinkering with that first FRONTIER add-on. I rigged out my first ship (not released) with the orange BRANIFF INTERNATIONAL logo and colors. You wrote me about it soon after you saw the pic I posted with my L-point problem.

 

[James.Denholm]

The simplest way to explain it:

Greg is a factory that makes apple pies for whales.

 

[GregBurch]

...up next: LSTS 2.0 LUL (Light Utility Lander) carrying 10-passenger module:

GB

 

[tl8]

...up next: LSTS 2.0 LUL (Light Utility Lander) carrying 10-passenger module:



GB

:drool:

Dang, Tex we need a drool simile,

 

[Andy44]

While it seems that all lunar cargo landers have similar design features, Greg's always look cool compared to my ugly ducklings. Something more slender and elegant about yours, while mine, after much discussion and rehashing, eventually became something like a truck that looks as if it's been in an accident.

http://orbiter-forum.com/album.php?albumid=28&pictureid=253
http://orbiter-forum.com/album.php?albumid=28&pictureid=259

Same numbers of engines, same landing gear configuration, same docking tunnel and payload placement, all determined by design requirements, and yet the two designs are radically different in appearance.

 

[GregBurch]

While it seems that all lunar cargo landers have similar design features, Greg's always look cool compared to my ugly ducklings. Something more slender and elegant about yours, while mine, after much discussion and rehashing, eventually became something like a truck that looks as if it's been in an accident.

http://orbiter-forum.com/album.php?albumid=28&pictureid=253
http://orbiter-forum.com/album.php?albumid=28&pictureid=259

Same numbers of engines, same landing gear configuration, same docking tunnel and payload placement, all determined by design requirements, and yet the two designs are radically different in appearance.

I think it's the hot cyborg chick in the copilot seat ....

 

[pattersoncr]

This belongs in this thread but the when I saw the lander pic, I right-clicked-and-dragged on it so I could see what it looked like from the side!

Greg, a couple of questions;
Does the passanger compartment detach? (Can you attach other modules there?)

Are you planning some cargo cradles to go with the Gilgamesh ships? The BSP ones don't quite fit.

Are you planning on redoing Celestium?

Keep up the great work!

 

[GregBurch]

This belongs in this thread but the when I saw the lander pic, I right-clicked-and-dragged on it so I could see what it looked like from the side!

Greg, a couple of questions;
Does the passanger compartment detach? (Can you attach other modules there?)

Are you planning some cargo cradles to go with the Gilgamesh ships? The BSP ones don't quite fit.

Are you planning on redoing Celestium?

I do that all the time ...

And the answers are yes, yes and yes.

 

[Arrowstar]

I think it's the hot cyborg chick in the copilot seat ....

Just another great feature of Greg's work. :thumbsup:

 

[GregBurch]

Continuing refinements to the structural framework: