News Japan Earthquake, Tsunami, & Nuclear Disaster

[SiberianTiger]

Re: denial - Mr.Gorbachev must be proud...

But the Japanese have been resisting the administrative urge to deny bad news thus far. Why do you think they would change the course all at once?

 

[Urwumpe]

But the Japanese have been resisting the administrative urge to deny bad news thus far. Why do you think they would change the course all at once?

Well, currently the confusing news situation is pretty much contributed to "Deny what can be deny and only admit what is too visible."

 

[Belisarius]

Well, currently the confusing news situation is pretty much contributed to "Deny what can be deny and only admit what is too visible."

... and with a 20km exclusion zone and the middle of the night, everything is invisible.

 

[Urwumpe]

... and with a 20km exclusion zone and the middle of the night, everything is invisible.

Exactly, nuclear scientists who wanted to do their own measurements in the region had been blocked already 60 km away from the plant. And a German NGO, International Search & Rescue, had just announced that they retract their people from Japan as long as the situation is unsure and the safety of their teams can not be controlled.

---------- Post added at 07:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:02 PM ----------

A Japanese journalist just asked the German Chancelorette during a press conference if she knows anything more about the situation in Japan. Things get strange and stranger.

 

[Sky Captain]

How likely is that this accident could result to serious loss of life? I mean they have evacuated nearby residents so there should be risk only to plant workers. If the wind blows to ocean the radioactive cloud would disperse over the ocean and worst stuff would be mostly decayed and dispersed when it reaches land.
In this case I'm thinking along the lines of worst case scenario which assume that the area around the damaged reactor becomes so radioactive that it prohibits human acces to other 3 nearby reactors some of which also appears to have cooling problems and as a result they suffer meltdown too.

 

[N_Molson]

The Japanese government now claims the explosion was caused by the roof collapse, not the other way around. Judging the available evidence, that is deepest denial. I start to loose trust in their statements, TEPCO was already known to be lying about their nuclear accidents.

:blink: On the video, we can clearly see the roof being vaporized into the sky with an impressive exhaust velocity ! :dry:

 

[Urwumpe]

No nuclear accident so far EVER resulted in serious loss of life, if you are strict.

That is not the point. It is rather that it means that many people get ill with cancer, who will either survive this ordeal long enough to not count as death by radiation or died by things that are not directly attributable to radiation. Only those who unmistakably died by strong radiation poisoning are counted as radiation deaths.

worse is the impact on the infrastructure. The death zone around Chernobyl is maybe already a bit painful for Ukraine, but a similar accident would be like a large chuck of Japan was washed into the sea. Even if a Meltdown on a BWR would spread less far, it would also mean that the affect area has much higher radiation levels.

Practically speaking, you won't kill many people by a nuclear accident, but you will ruin the quality of living of millions directly and indirectly by it. The poisoning of drinking water by chemical companies in the past also rarely killed people, but caused more than enough injury.

---------- Post added at 07:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:31 PM ----------

:blink: On the video, we can clearly see the roof being vaporized into the sky with an impressive exhaust velocity ! :dry:

Exactly. And the Prandl singularity that formed above the roof and quickly traveled higher was sure caused by ignited swamp gases.

 

[Linguofreak]

The Japanese government now claims the explosion was caused by the roof collapse, not the other way around. Judging the available evidence, that is deepest denial. I start to loose trust in their statements, TEPCO was already known to be lying about their nuclear accidents.

Should be fairly easy to tell that by examining photos of the damage. Problem is that I can only find one far-off shot. But I'd think that a roof collapse followed by an explosion would lead to debris landing in different places than an explosion tearing a (relatively) intact building apart.

 

[Sky Captain]

If there already were H2 leaked inside the building a roof colapse certainly could have triggered explosion by causing a spark. But then again why would the roof suddenly collapse on its own. Photos before the explosion show no earthquake damage to rector building and the steel frame still stands after the blast.

 

[Belisarius]

According to Orbiter, first light over eastern Japan will be in 3 hours. At that point there should be some independent satellite imagery to check on the latest state of the plant, regardless of any Japanese govt cover-up.

Until then I don't think there will be any hard information.

 

[Sky Captain]

Practically speaking, you won't kill many people by a nuclear accident, but you will ruin the quality of living of millions directly and indirectly by it. The poisoning of drinking water by chemical companies in the past also rarely killed people, but caused more than enough injury.

Well yeah. And on top of possible major radiation release a large area already is polluted by toxic chemicals carried tsunami. I guess in tsunami affected industrial areas there are large number of breached oil and chemical storage tanks that have spewed their content all over the place.

 

[Urwumpe]

Well yeah. And on top of possible major radiation release a large area already is polluted by toxic chemicals carried tsunami. I guess in tsunami affected industrial areas there are large number of breached oil and chemical storage tanks that have spewed their content all over the place.

Things can never get so bad, that it can't get worse.

 

[Sky Captain]

According to Orbiter, first light over eastern Japan will be in 3 hours. At that point there should be some independent satellite imagery to check on the latest state of the plant, regardless of any Japanese govt cover-up.

Until then I don't think there will be any hard information.

Anyway, it shouldn't be too hard to rent a plane and get some footage from air

 

[Urwumpe]

Anyway, it shouldn't be too hard to rent a plane and get some footage from air

Sorry, that is wrong. A nuclear reactor is always a no-fly zone. :lol:

Also, I rather wait for IR images of the reactor, because I am interested in the temperatures.

 

[Coolhand]

The worst of this particular aspect of the disaster in Japan may be over...

Headline from the Guardian:

"Japan's fears of nuclear mayhem recede as nuclear reactor starts to cool"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/12/japan-nuclear-meltdown-fukushima-reactor

guess we will wait and see....

 

[Ghostrider]

Why overfly it with a plane, I guess some recon birds will image the hell out of the place anyway. It's not like Japan is not a strategic area that is not covered by sat imagery...

 

[Linguofreak]

Somebody commented on the heartless nature of the comments on CNN and other media. Here's a handful of the latest on CNN on the report that the US is sending teams to help

1BHart How can the US do this? The US is broke and has it's own serious problems to deal with. Is the US taxpayer expected to absorb this?
4 minutes ago | Like | Report abuse

packerlandpi Shouldn't we save our money seeing how we are in such a large deficit? Japan has enough money, let them use it.
5 minutes ago | Like | Report abuse

durrrr We are from the government and are here to help.
7 minutes ago | Like | Report abuse

JLWKCMO Americans lose homes and starve and our governments are closing our schools, yet we always have money for other countries. A day of rage will come to america soon. We live in an autocracy for the wealthy. All the rulers are rich while the american people suffer. Our revolt will come.
14 minutes ago | Like (2) | Report abuse​

:facepalm: Americans are starving? I suppose there are a few, but last I knew it was mostly people bellyaching about having to actually buy food at the grocery store rather than eating at McDonalds every day. Do these people not realize that even in the midst of our current economic troubles the average American is probably richer than 90 or 95% of the people that have ever lived?

 

[IronRain]

I'm so sorry for the japanese people. Japan itself, the culture but most of the people are so kind. I'm not sure if it is the corect way to say it but I'm 'fan' of Japan for almost my whole life. I'm watching the television with tears in my eyes. And just as you think it can't go worse it goes. I've got so much respect for the people who are telling to the television that they affraid of what's coming next. They do that with a little smile on their face, but with tear in their eyes.

 

[RisingFury]

CNN reports sea water used to cool the reactor.

 

[Tex]

:facepalm: Americans are starving? I suppose there are a few, but last I knew it was mostly people bellyaching about having to actually buy food at the grocery store rather than eating at McDonalds every day. Do these people not realize that even in the midst of our current economic troubles the average American is probably richer than 90 or 95% of the people that have ever lived?

Let's try and stay on topic with the events in Japan and avoid diving into a debate about selfish Americans who can't appreciate the food they have on their table tonight. :tiphat: